What about “Little Flop”?
@NotFastEnuf: Welcome to the brushless forces. Power corrupts!
Dude, I still think it’s worth a message back to him. Looking at your listing with “TM” eyes, I could see how “Tiny Whoop Mullet Canopy” could be taken wrong. If it were “Shanghai Canopy for Tiny Whoop” or something else, it might be better.
He did buy 2 of them, that’s what baffles me. Did he do that just to message you?
Such a bummer.
@NotFastEnuf: Definitely don’t send a nasty message. That would be below you, and counterproductive. Also don’t let this ruin your fantastic canopy development project. That would be a major loss for the community.
Didn’t you communicate with Jesse and exchange techniques for hydro dipping canopies? Based on what you reported here, it sounded like he was sharing openly. He might not know that the eBay seller he’s just sent a “cease and desist” note to is the same guy that he worked with.
As far as a Tiny Whoop trademark, I have a feeling that Jesse did file for it. Remember when Blade came out with the Indy FPV, they didn’t give any credit. A few days after launch, they suddenly included a paragraph about how Jesse came up with the Tiny Whoop. This even though others on RCGroups put an AIO cam on the LOS Inductrix before he did.
In any case, don’t let the harsh e-mail get you down! Worst case, you can change your references to Shanghai Whip instead of Tiny Whoop. He may have a claim to the “Tiny Whoop” brand. But sticking an AIO cam on a 6mm brushed quad or making molded canopies is totally generic, prior art. Word of mouth referrals are better for your sales anyway. The Chinese will always win on click-bait keywords.
Yeah, make it additive… Tiny Ass Canopies (not exclusively for “Tiny Whoops™”).
Yeah, I did a Trademark search, he owns it and the logo.
@PJC: That makes a lot of sense. Any issue here is purely about words. It has nothing to do with the canopies themselves.
Are you totally sure that the person who sent you the message is Jesse Perkins? For a formal message, and one that went to eBay and a lawyer, it sure has a lot of mistakes…
@MidnightQuads [quote=“NotFastEnuf, post:333, topic:3142, full:true”]
Yeah, the paypal info from the payment verifies it’s him.
I thought the same thing. It’s been confirmed.
When someone buys something from you, you get a PayPal payment with their actual email address. It’s his. I seriously doubt someone else has a PayPal registered to his personal email. And the shipping address matches his business registration. … I looked it up.
@Brainstorm, as for sharing the ideas when I was creating - Jesse Perkins himself doesn’t make the canopies for sale on his site. They are made by Ed P. (rcgroups - EdRotor) . He is the one that was super helpful in helping me get started… and is a really cool dude at that. Sent me molds, samples, shared techniques…). Anyway
I remember flying Nano QX fpv at the time when Inductrix came out. Saw some video’s of people putting FPV on it, getting 2 minutes flight time. I didn’t even bother. Then stuff became popular thanks to Jesse. After a certain point, money is involved. And that’s when stuff like copyright, trademarks, branding and all that stuff becomes necessary. Or there would be 10 tinywhoop.com’s. I don’t think we can blame Jesse for that.
I think the point is, it’s not about who put a FPV cam on an Inductrix first. It’s about the name ‘Tiny Whoop’ as in a brand. As long as you don’t use that name there shouldn’t be a problem. Question is, how are we gonna call it so the target audience will still find it?
The phrase “tiny whoop” is in over 2000 ebay product listings. Is he really emailing them all…
Maybe all of the ones which sell better accessories at a better price.
You maybe should see the whole thing as some kind of “compliment gone wrong”.
Yeah, I do a bit. But what gets me is reporting me to ebay without saying hello or asking me to change something… anyway - I decided to respond to his message - I’ll share it here in case anyone wants to see what I did write back to him.
[Quote]“New message to: yestertimer
Hi Jesse, nice to meet you. My name’s Travis. Sorry my canopy creation seems to have upset you. Do you actually want to try them, or do you just need my name and address for your lawyers from the shipping label? I’m just a guy enjoying the hobby, making some stuff in my garage, and trying to support the rc community. Heck if I told you I’ve made over 50$ selling these I’d be lying to you - I even send tons of them out for free to anyone that asks. Its not about the money for me - and I’m not trying to be “in business” or step on your toes - I’m just making these for fun. I even bought one of the canopies off your site that Ed makes for you but they just don’t fit the Chinese frames. So I made my own. I’m no business man or lawyer (in fact I’m an engineer by trade - and currently just a stay at home dad to my 4 month old and 2 year old boys) so I’m sorry if my product listing wasn’t phrased exactly right. I don’t have a lawyer to check with first…
Anyway, it was really cool of you to feature Patrick’s shirt design on your site “Whooping isn’t a chrime”. PJC is a cool dude and a good buddy. I’ve always heard the same about you too - although its hard for me to agree with you reporting me to ebay and threatening me with lawyers without even saying hello first.
So in short, here is my name and address if that’s the only reason you purchased:
639 **** **
Apopka, Fl 32703
Here is my phone number in case you ever want to talk
I will close by saying please remember that the RC hobby is no place for a bully. We are community of supportive and helpful enthusiasts. We all make mistakes, and adamantly help each other learn from our mistakes with support, encouragement, and advice. Don’t let your big time status as Mr Tiny Whoop cause you to forget the roots of the hobby that gave you your success. I’m going to cancel your order. I don’t want your $. If you want my canopy, just ask and you can have as many as you like for free
Very well put. I think that’s the right response. ( Mister Tiny Whoop lol)
@NotFastEnuf: That’s well written. I suspect this wasn’t your first draft.
You managed to stay polite and respectful, while still sharing some of your frustration. In general, I would disagree with canceling an order. However, with this detailed explanation and an offer to send him some free sample canopies, I think it’s fair enough. Hopefully he’ll read it, and respond positively.
Kudos for taking the high road. Keep your head up!
Thanks man, and thanks everyone for the support. I will put some thought into removing the word “tiny” from my description. And I’ll re edit my thread title to remove the click bait now…
@NotFastEnuf: Makes sense to edit TW references on your eBay listing. However, I wouldn’t worry about it here on the forum. MMW is an official reseller of TW-branded MyLipo packs, so I would hope they would cut the forum/community some slack as well. In addition, here we are just carrying on a discussion, not selling anything.
Not sure if someone already said this but @brainstorms post just reminded me, cut out the tiny, just call it whoop canopy lol
He is only sending letter to people in the States where US law applys. He can send letters to foreign sellers, they just ignore those letters.
This whole thing is about business. He is not telling you that you can not sell the canopies, just that you can not use two word together. Change the wording, attribute the owners of the trademarks. that is all that is needed. Do not let this get you down. It is a small bump in the road. Other have said it , better than I, it is about the words, and using those words to market products.
Your technique, your openness are spectacular. Please do not let this get you down.