Project Mockingbird: Getting your BF Whoop FC to Fly better than the Inductrix Angle Mode


#1

If you know me well around here, you know I’ve been trying to get my Betaflight FC’s to fly as good or better than the Inductrix flies in Angle mode. Scott Allyn paved the way, but we were limited by PPM FC’s in our Whoops, and frankly Betaflight wasn’t that good at it.

Well, that’s all changed…as @Benedikt has mentioned 3.2.3 and above seemed to fix a lot of the issues we were having with Whoops at High G maneuvers…so, check it out!

HISTORY
A lot of this setup is owed to Scott Allyn from the MMW community as he was the first one I am of aware of to try to do this and got a lot of the basics figured out. But Betaflight Angle mode, slow PPM Betaflight FC’s and filtering just wasn’t that great back then, and it’s only really been since 3.2.2 and above that I’ve noticed it’s gotten A LOT better for Whoops.

OVERVIEW
This setup will closely mimic what an Inductrix FPV FC is doing in Angle mode, but this setup will allow you to change to different flying style characteristics for Acro with a flick of switch, something that the stock FC just can’t do. But the good news is, the angle limit has been increased and we can use higher KV motors!

Check out the document here, and let me know if you have any questions!


#2

@PJC I have been away from betaflight for almost a year now … I’m sure alot has changed in the last year. When I did participate i considered the ability to blackbox log a must have since so many of the advanced features even a year agp required tweaks that were almost impossible without logging to find the ultimate edge of performance. Anyway … to get to my point. I remember tuning rc interpolation to be one of the BIGGEST feel differences in the sticks. Defaults have so much latency - or at least they used to and especially on ppm. Have you addressed rc interpolation to get a more connected feel from the sticks? Would it be possible to use tethered logging on a whoop to to tune that for the lowest possible latency in the absence of blackbox logging?

I’m pretty out of touch with betaflight these days but this was the first thing that came to mind as I read through your project and quest for the holy grail of whooping.


#3

Is that like setpoint weight? If so, I played with it and settled on 1 and 1 to get as close to Inductrix…but that being said, Inductrix isn’t perfect and it does have some laziness to it. I figure now that I’m hearing people think their Mockingbird Whoops are flying “better” than the Inductrix, there is room to grow since we would be pushing past what the Inductrix does…we need smart people like you to chime in!

I’ve even put this setup on my Torrent and it flies like a big Whoop, so I’m guessing with some tweaks, a BOSS might be a crazy fast and precise Angle machine. :slight_smile:


#4

It’s a filter that is applied to the incoming rc control signal from the rx. Rc signals come in as a stair step. The changes as you move the sticks only have so much resolution and each increment is a stair step. Rc interpolation smooths out that stair step into a nice fluid curve but at the expense of latency in the controls. The goal is not to upset the pid controller with jagged control inputs (specifically D term hates jagged changes) but there used to be alot of room for improvement to reduce latency and still keep the inputs smooth enough. I need someone with more betaflight head space than I currently have to verify but I believe you could tune it for max performance using tethered logging on a whoop - can anyone verify? (Insert tags to call in betaflight experts here)
Also, ppm delay used to be a function of some kind of averaging feature to try to compensate for ppm jitter. Somewhere I read of a guy who changed the code not to average ppm signals and pushed some amazing performance out of ppm so there may be hope for old tech as well with a little creativity.

Maybe this will help communicate the process


Since I have been exclusively silverware on brushed for the last year … there is tons of discussion in silverware corners about it feeling much more connected than betaflight. I think the laggy defaults of betaflight rc interpolation have something to do with that. The good news is its commonly overlooked and it can be tuned for a better feel!

#5

ahhhh, gotcha…yeah, I always leave that at Auto…hell even without black box, it looks like you could take 5-7 points off and gain some.


#6

Honestly for brushed you could probably turn it completely off. Silverware to my knowledge doesn’t use it at all and controls feel razor sharp. If we had active braking I would think that would be a different story… but we can afford for the D term to get a little active - the motors can’t respond that quickly to cause a problem. Try it out off and see if it sharpens up to feel any.


#7

DUDE!! Yeah, I took it to 1ms instead of the default 19ms and it’s noticeable! Not PPM to SBUS, but more than 22ms to 11ms DSMX speed. Didn’t notice anything else bad happening and was running the Inductrix FPV Plus ragged to see what happened.

Does Silverware have a good Angle mode that can be tweaked? If we could put Mockingbird settings on a Silverware FC, that might be a big hit.


#8

Well that’s great news! Let me know if my submission to project mockingbird becomes an official addition after you get done testing :smile:
As for silverware it does have a good angle mode and it is adjustable. It also has some features that would just blow your mind for brushed that don’t exist anywhere else which can actually increase punch… but this discussion isn’t about silverware. Lol Let’s stay on topic. Hehe. You’ve got a good thing going here and if you put a multimodule in that taranis and flew a flashed e011 with my tune … you’d end up giving away your bf fc’s like I did and have more power on tap and such a connected feel in acro that you’d leave level mode for good! Lmfao. I kid cause we’re friends … but I’m really not kidding. Lol


#9

Ha…well, I’d use my Jumper, and I still love Angle mode for Whoop racing…but you do intrigue me with Silverware’s Angle mode options…how does the gyro handle crashing? Betaflight is TERRIBLE at that.


#10

Great I’d say. It’s only downfall is that for reasons that I can not tune out yet… it gets overwhelmed outside and can’t be slammed into corners - it will blow out. Inside it behaves perfectly no matter what you ask of it. I only fly mine inside.

I’m actually curious to revisit betaflight myself and give it another shot and see what I can do with it … taking some guidance from project mockingbird of course! Maybe it would do us both good to walk a mile in each others shoes @PJC.


#11

So I went and gave angle mode another whirl… I just can’t do it anymore man. I don’t mind the auto level on roll and I can see its value… but I hate constantly leaning on the pitch stick. I’m not sure if you ever flew open pilot (yeah remember open pilot) but one thing I always loved about it was that you could select your flight mode independently on each axis. For example, rate mode on yaw, horizon or level on roll and rate mode on pitch. Maybe I need to make an edit to code… I want to try an indoor whoop mode that gives me leveling on roll but rate mode on pitch so I don’t have to keep leaning on it for forward speed. What do you think???


#12

That’s crazy!
I would fly it.

You might also be interested in a centering pitch stick in combination with a custom pitch curve, where center stick gives you around 30˚ forward angle. 80% of the pitch curve used for forward pitch, and steep hook at the bottom of the curve for throw-the-anchor moves.


#13

I’d like to try it again too… let’s see if we can make that happen!! They say in life it’s not so much what you know but who you know so let’s give that a shot first… maybe if we ask the right people nicely :wink:

@silver13 would you be willing to add a flight mode to silverware that only uses the accelerometer on the roll axis - does that also sound interesting to you for indoor whooping? I can give the edit a try but I get the feeling you could do it a lot faster than I could. :smile:

@Denovich - is there any chance you could use your influence in the betaflight community to make this flight mode a reality sir? Please and thank you!


#14

Will try anything once!!!


#15

#16

I can also ping Joshua Bardwell about it too for Betaflight.


#17

Well @silver13 to the rescue again. I tried to code it today but couldn’t sort it out. I asked silver for help and had the correct code to edit a half hour later. Did I mention that kind of support as one of the reasons above that I’ve been hooked on silverware??? I should have! I’ll be flying it tonight and will report back @PJC!!!


#18

OH holy whooping heaven!!! It’s AWESOME! !! I couldn’t wait …edited and flashed while holding the youngest child … then grabbed 45 seconds of flight time while he was in my lap before he grabbed the tx and ripped the goggles off my face… anyway

THIS IS THE WAY TO FREAKING RACE INSIDE!!!

Within those first few seconds I was hitting the gate space under lines of chairs at close to top speed on the approach and traveling through. I’ve never been able to hit the whole row before. I’ll have to post some video tonight. I’m in whooping love with this flight mode!!!


#19

Haha been there with the kids. Sounds like fun! Might be time to get back into brushed micros…


#20

Need to name this new flight mode next …
Any suggestions??? @PJC?