Micro Motor Community

NotFastEnuf E011 / Bwhoop Silverware Fork


So you want it on all the time??? If so, just uncomment line 120 for now … and it will start up on Error instead of Measurement.

And you’re not being duped … sticks are soooooo ALIVE on d term error. Think about it… D is even faster than P at responding to changes and now its tracking your sticks and comparing them to the gyro… helping to push the quad to match exactly what you are telling it to do. Ever watch the angry birds movie?? It’s the yellow bird. (I suppose that makes P the big red one and I the smaller grumpy red one). But I digress. At first you are right, sticks are kinda … whoa… then you get used to it. And when you switch back … it makes measurement feel like flying in really thick air. Everything is dulled because measurement is just activating D when the quad moves fast and tells it to resist the beginning of the change. That’s not bad - just different.


If anything gives you trouble just let me know. I could help just as you have helped me.


Funny you should say that because that’s exactly like my BFers feel like. I feel much crisper and quicker as opposed to my BFers which I must say, are as smooth as glass but just feel “heavier???” It just feels more efficient and slightly assisted, like have an R2 unit flying with you - hehehe

Flying with the rates at 1200 and 1000, I do get a bit of bounce-back exiting rolls, “I feel ya, D”
Overall Loving it!

Will do! Error it is.

FWIW, it just feels new and unfamiliar and it’s gotten me out of some complacency I’ve been experiencing.

As an event, I’ve always loved slalom, whether skateboarding or skiing. With quads I’m getting there, flying 2 feet above the ground as fast as I can between perfectly placed tree saplings about 12-15’ apart has been tough, but with this new feature, I can almost do it without rudder - just throttle, pitch and roll get me there easier than ever.

Thanks man - as always - Great Job!


You have come up with your own interesting tune. A whoop tune has really low D because the tip vortices coming off the prop interact with the ducts. It’s almost like braking and quickly slows the props when they aren’t being powered. But you use a whoop tune on unducted large props which carry more momentum. Now you’ve added torque boost too which is a derivative of motor outputs and is opposing the bounce back but with error method it’s just not enough. You could try raising D and it may reign that in some. But i think this is why BF introduced transition. So that as your stick returned to center … it would transition back to a measurement calculation and “thicken the air” to aid in removing that bounce back. Only problem is, I love the feel of error on small stick motions. How do we get error on stick deflection, and measurement on stick return???


And the amazing thing is that I can use the same tune with the other builds and get the same results.
IMHO - A good tune is a good tune regardless of the situation.

Agreed, though I use this in a typical profile (below) in BF on all my builds 6, 8, 8.5mm

Using your “known good tune” I was able to get a better understanding on how things should feel. Using this great knowledge, I’ve been able to get close in feel at least in the 8 and 8.5mm builds.

set anti_gravity_threshold = 350
set anti_gravity_gain = 10000
set setpoint_relax_ratio = 1
set dterm_setpoint_weight = 170
set p_pitch = 130
set i_pitch = 50
set d_pitch = 70
set p_roll = 130
set i_roll = 50
set d_roll = 70
set p_yaw = 180
set i_yaw = 100
set d_yaw = 20
set p_level = 50
set i_level = 50
set d_level = 75

and for rates:

set thr_mid = 50
set thr_expo = 0
set rates_type = BETAFLIGHT
set roll_rc_rate = 190
set pitch_rc_rate = 190
set yaw_rc_rate = 190
set roll_expo = 0
set pitch_expo = 0
set yaw_expo = 0
set roll_srate = 62
set pitch_srate = 62
set yaw_srate = 62
set tpa_rate = 10
set tpa_breakpoint = 1650

Not really interested - I kinda like the raw feel of it. It just takes better piloting skills…


I got the new Error D Term feature flashed and went through 7 packs trying to tell the difference. I’m still a pretty green pilot, so it took me until pack 6 to really feel it over my flailing around with acro mode indoors. (I do a lot better with acro outside where I have more room for error!)

I got into a groove, though, and could feel the difference as I went around a loop in my house. On the tight corners, it felt like the quad was turning almost before I commanded it to (compared to measurement D term, I guess). So I got a hint of what you mean by “predictive of my stick motions” and going back to measurement “feel like flying in really thick air.” When I’m a better pilot, I’m sure I’ll appreciate the difference more! :- )

Anyway, the build looks good and is working without any adverse effects that I saw. Great work!


Exactly this. The raw difference is that D works to accelerate the quad towards incoming stick commands with error, and justs resists gyro motion with measurement (if I have my head wrapped around this right). That certainly is what it feels like though!

Also, you can fly in level mode to test this if that’s how you normally fly indoors. It’s still active there too.


Hi guys, is this config ok, to disable pid tuning gestures:


// *************flash save method
// *************flash_save 1: pids + accel calibration
// *************flash_save 2: accel calibration to option bytes
#define FLASH_SAVE1
//#define FLASH_SAVE2


@NotFastEnuf I tested your latest version on my new 8.5mm build. MIX_THROTTLE_INCREASE_MAX sent me straight into the ceiling, at zero throttle :joy: Damn, that thing has power.

I got it flyable, but my settings still need some work. Flying with expo feels like it isn’t responding to stick movements at all :sweat_smile: I’m used to my crazy responsive rocket whoop, so I probably just need a bit of time with bigger quads.


Yeah I’m still suggesting turning that back down to .20f for everything non whoop. What’s up with your rates? Your rates/expo should feel about the same no matter what you’re flying.


Sorry, that wasn’t intended as feedback on your code :sweat_smile: Lazy me just didn’t change the rates.


Lol. Well you are another report of 1.0 max mix increase not liking anything but a whoop


Please - don’t do anything drastic!!! - lol

A default of 50% for general use, with the user/pilot knowing that it might take time to adapt or accept the new ‘Turbo Authority’. I still would like to maintain the ability to change it to 100% or “//” it out. I really like 100% - BTW
I did notice, for obvious reasons, the tune, in it’s current form, is not suitable for anything but perfect X configurations. I suspect some unpredictable results as I personally experienced with a deadcat config.


If you comment out the strength line it just defaults back to 20% (where it’s always been).


I got it flying pretty good now :grin: I’m not getting any telemetry though :disappointed:

I figured out the missing telemetry thing. When you bind with telemetry disabled in your transmitter and save the bind state (U-U-U), it not only saves the transmitter ID but also if telemetry is enabled or not. When you bind with the same transmitter ID again after that, it doesn’t matter if you have telemetry enabled in the transmitter or not. It will always disable telemetry. The only solution seems to be changing the transmitter ID :man_shrugging:


With 8.5motor build it went up in the ceiling right when i armed it! What settinggs do i need to change? Im using a hv lipo btw


Comment out the line right below mix_increase_throttle_3 that says something about max 1.0f. Also set your filtering to very strong, and go grab pids on pid.c for 8.5mm


I need help. I flashed by Bwhoop-B03 Pro yesterday and was flying sweet until I crashed kind of hard but not too bad. I couldn’t bind again after that. Today I have erased and flashed several times but am unable to bind at all. I’m using a QX7S with IRX4+ module. Everything looks cool in Keil. Any ideas?


Yeah, classic case of the crystal getting busted. It’s that little cylinder soldered on two legs probably right under your camera. I relocate those to the bottom. Disassemble your stock toy TX to pull out a spare and change it out.


You are the man! I don’t know how I did it but I swapped the crystal and I’m flying again!