Micro Motor Community

Nano QX vs Tiny Whoop - possible hybrid design?


#81

No doubt, bro. Totally reasonable to be suspicious of such plagiarism-like activities lol Artificial intelligence is really quite scary. I hope in this particular instance it wasn’t an example of the birth of a “digital internet being” (DIB) learning how to blend in and speak like us! :smiley: Could u imagine that? That would be an insane concept to hop into the internet as a digital platform and witness a digital society full of DIBs!!!.. I wonder if the DIBs would be able to tell if you were a human infiltrator trying to blend into their society as they would be trying to blend into ours… wait a second, this sounds a lot like the matrix!!! :smiley: ahhhh im going wild cuz im bored at work lololol

Edit: Hope everyone’s having an awesome day, and flying mad packs!!! Or at least thinking about flying mad packs!!


#82

Well motors arrive tomorrow… 46mm hm830 props are here. Hopefully I’ll find some time to get it all together. First reports will be on ultralight 6mm with 46mm props and with/without ducts.


#83

Ok so motors just arrived and I swear I was hovering before the tail lights of the postal jeep were out of sight.

Started with the super minimal 2g ultralight frame and 46mm props. Some good and bad to report.

First the bad… I had previously been plagued by a horrible rattling on this build which I attributed to bad props causing the motors to shake around. Well it’s not the props. The 46mm do it on the same motor positions (rear). Performance is knocked in the dirt when this happens. It’s my frame. There’s a harmonic on the two rear arms. So fixable

Now the “meh” - motors get nuclear hot (expected). Punch is better than whoop props but not OMG better. Hard to tell on top speed but seems faster. Fpv will show more when I add a camera

Finally the good - recovery from a dive even carrying a 8.5mm motor as ballast is instant. This flight characteristic is OMG better than the whoop props. Tight power loops are possible.

Conclusions: redesign ultralight frame to eliminate power robbing resonance / vibration on rear motors. Test ducted frame and add fpv for more data. The ducts being attached to the frame arms should disrupt the resonance. First… I need to smack a set of the same motors in a whoop and record a few runs so there is something to compare to that we all get to see side by side.


#84

Just flew the same 6mm motors in a whoop. Punch is snappier for little blips but quickly loses out in vertical travel to the bigger props… Recovery from a dive sucks in comparison. Gonna clean the house and work on an indoor “track” to use for comparison. Unfortunately my wife’s too smart to believe that I cleaned for any other reason but to whoop so no brownie points.


#85

Another update… just tested the ducted frame… no resonance - way faster both with and without 5g ballast simulating fpv gear. My faith in the project is restored. Was actually very fun to fly line of sight even with 5g strapped to it. The 6mm whoop definitely isn’t.


#86

@NotFastEnuf: That says it all right there! :smile:


#87

So I got fpv gear loaded on it last night. Build weight turned out to be 20 grams. Not bad. Took it for a spin out front this morning and treed it. Got plenty of good video first though.

Disclaimers:
-this is a longer video because I wanted to document as much flight performance as possible. 3 packs worth of clips.

  • no tuning was done before this flight - it’s not pretty.

This is supposed to be a project targeted at indoor flying so I will rebuild, tune it, and put it head to head with a tiny whoop as soon as possible. I just wanted to see what it could do outside in windy conditions. It’s got the power - but can I fly it like a tiny whoop inside??? We’ll find out soon :smile:


Show us your builds!
#88

Honestly I’m not even sure this project has much merit now that ludicrous 0617’s exist in 25kv. Lol

I’m gonna have to try some of those “for science”. No way they will swing anything but whoop prop without cooking. :wink:


#89

@NotFastEnuf: I thought it flew quite well. Better than I expected, actually, notably when you were looping around the couch inside the garage. Will it outmaneuver a finely tuned Whoop on an indoor residential course? Might be hard to do with larger span and more prop inertia. But take it anywhere indoors that’s not a modest residence, say a gym or the atrium of an office building, and it will shine! :smiley:

As for the 06-17 25kv, Geronimo! :wink:


#90

Redesign on the 6mm ductless ultralight. A few weak spots reinforced. Nicer fit to the canopy. Weight is still about 2 grams. I think I actually prefer flying without ducts but will still try to put a ducted version through an indoor track soon.


#91

Absolutely!
Just like an nQx that you cut off the 4 prop guards down to the motor mounts - flies that much better - IMHO

Seriously, I’m giddy! I can’t wait to get that thing up in the air with the TinyF3/Lemon/Ludicrous combo - hehehe

Thanks @NotFastEnuf - you ARE the man!


#92

Geez… you’re putting ludicrous motors in it??? I’ll be very curious to see of those cook on 46mm props!!


#93

aha, yep - heeheehee!


#94

Time to take the new design for a ride


Weighs in at 18 grams dry - Not Too shabby


#95

Flew a few laps inside with the ductless… it’s just too fast to get surgical. It can be flown inside without a doubt… ripping laps felt great and was insane fast … but I couldn’t slow down quick enough to transition into the tight spaces from full speed blasts. Maybe it can be done… but for sure requires more skill. So big props are not going to de-throne the whoop for indoor flying but they did turn out to be faster and stronger. I’m glad I have it available for those times I just want to go sloppy fast inside. Outside it feels about like a 45 gram dry 8.5mm. So that’s cool too.

Last stage of this project is to test out the cgo23/x9 props. I already know they’re faster so it may take it up another notch for outdoors. Then design an ultralight frame for tiny whoop props since I concede it’s the king of indoor proximity.


#96

@NotFastEnuf Damn! That was like the quickest research project ever. You reached a conclusion in less than two weeks. I guess the Tiny Whoop has reigned supreme for over a year for good reason.

That might be the silver lining. This setup is worthy and stands by itself. No need to try to compete with the Whoop, which has its own narrow niche. Enjoy this Hybrid for what it is, an awesomely powerful yet tiny brushed quad, which can be flown places where a Whoop would get blown away by the wind. :wink:


#97

Thanks @Brainstorm… it wasn’t hard to see the differences flying them back to back. You mention the wind and you’re right! Today was very gusty. Flags were stretched out straight - and this little 18 gram craft (23 with battery) held its own quite well. No issues at all.

Surprisingly, the real lesson that I’m taking away from this is how to better use, manipulate, and conserve inertia. Today I flew the 6mm creation here, an 8.5mm, 4 different 2in quads, and a 3in back to back since both my kids took a nap at the same time (WAHOO!). I put them all through the same moves out front. Honestly most moves look/feel better with more inertia - and are much much harder to pull off with less. It’s really really challenging to throw 23 grams into any advanced freestyle move - but after a few reps I moved over to a 2in brushless and was able to repeat the muscle memory from the 6mm craft and create hangtime like never before on the 2". My 2" crafts were hanging in the air in ways I had only previously been able to do with a 3in. I had time to throw in an extra roll at the end of a tumble over an obstacle, or more inverted time in a split s to line up a better exit. My entry into tricks had improved because of the practice on a 23 gram craft. It was like swinging two bats before you step up to the plate! Suddenly everything moving up a craft size felt easier!


#98

This hybrid is an awesome use of tiny whoop components! I need some of these frames as I have 4 whoops and am bored with at least 2 of them. I’m a big fan of prop gards or ducted frames simply for public perception of safety and sometimes feel that’s the only reason why no one’s chased me out of any public park…
@NotFastEnuf 's craft advancement has help to discover some new piloting techniques and theories that I’m riveted to the edge of my seat to explore and experience!
Just to recap, NotFastEnuf has the flashed e011board and mmw 6-15 19s for lightest possible auw, and 7-16 e011 motors are noticably heavier and would hurt the low inertia/hang time training?


#99

Yes, I’ll try to elaborate on that a bit more just to make sure I’m making myself clear…

Hangtime moves are easier to do with more inertia … and they typically hang longer and look smoother the more inertia you have.

The inertia you carry into a move comes from two places - weight and speed. The weight of your craft will remain constant - but it’s speed in the direction of travel is up to our controls. Often we kill some of this speed when entering a freestyle move with our control inputs to create certain visual effects as we look in directions that are not along our direction of travel. Small variations in stick movement and timing can kill more or help conserve our speed through a manuver.

I’m finding trying to create inertia with lighter crafts is forcing better habits on my muscle memory. It’s making me fly better. Don’t know if it will work for you… but it was noticeable enough for me to stop and go … “wow! - how’d I just do that?”.

I like practicing freestyle on brushed crafts. You have to be a master of inertia to get into and out of moves cleanly. Very little room for error. With brushless it’s all too easy to just rely on the increased thrust to weight ratio and power through anything. Sure that’s useful - but there is some purity and “flow” to flying in a manner that conservs as much momentum as possible to me. It’s hard to see that feedback on brushless - and often painfully obvious on brushed. :slight_smile:


#100

Thats kinda what I was thinking. Forget replacing the tiny whoop, you built the ultimate freestyle training quad @NotFastEnuf! This is incredible, I’m always interested in becoming a better pilot and if flying one of these will help develop skills that will help my brushless freestyle, I NEED ONE!:open_mouth: where can I get the ducted frame?!