Micro tuning techniques - different than larger quads


#201

That explains it. Lol


#202

The tune is feeling good but I do notice that in hard banked turns, it’ll dip an arm and get out of control and I’ll have to “catch it”. Am I just reaching the limits of thrust on these brushed motors, or is that something in the tune? Opinions? Thoughts? Wisdom? :smiley:


#203

Either that’s a bad motor (not likely on a new set Of darks) or its tune related (most likely). I find it near impossible to get my brushed quad out of sorts in any manuver. We could throw a few more “guess tunes” at it if you like. If your dipping just 1 arm - then that seems both pitch and roll related. Basically I would just bump both pitch and roll P and D up equally by 10 points at first and then by 5 points till that behaviour stops. I wouldn’t think you’d need a total increase of more than 15 or 20pts. Hmm, on second thought - raise yaw P to 125 first and see what that does and then do the pitch and roll thing. If it helps then bump that by 5’a till you hit a point of diminishing returns.


#204

That was kind of my plan, but my numbers seem SO HIGH already…brusssssshhhheedd is cray-cray! :stuck_out_tongue:


#205

You’re still well below where I and @bobnova landed! You should see the tunes I run on 2s micro brushless - P close to or over 100. D in the upper 50’s and 60’s. Lol I like a quad that can not be forced into any bad behaviors. I don’t mind a tiny oscillation in prop wash, but arm dipping is not allowed! !


#206

If you have vibrations getting to the fc then high D can actually cause strange dipping of arms as the gyro gets swamped, check motor temp and prop condition/balance.


#207

Hmmm, that sounds interesting. It usually happens in a quick hairpin, or when I’m at the start of a high-speed sweeping turn that I’m banking hard into and as I add yaw it tends to dip in and down into the turn.


#208

Sounds like the tune is low to me. Vibration related bad behavior wouldn’t be so specific to just high g manuvers.


#209

I just adjusted my tune ala @NotFastEnuf…will try it out on my “lunch break” instead of doing laps in the pool…exercise is for suckers. :stuck_out_tongue:


#210

Vibration swamping of the gyro signal can build up even in a hover if you have one corner bad, depends on frame type and many other factors, polycarb frames being most susceptible. I’ve had these problems and am a fan of high pids for small craft especially whoop sort of size, so I tend to keep D relatively low and work with high P to get the tune how I like. Relative meaning still possibly into the high 30s but paying close attention to motor temps. Whoops are all way up nearer 70/80 D.


#211

wish there was a "super like"
you are defiantly a great teacher and i am so glad you spent the time researching and developing your method.


#212

You guys inspired it cause it was discovered during our communications as this thread developed. I appreciate the compliments but it’s really a credit to our community - I often wonder what the hobby would be like for me without you guys - or if I’d still just be flying airplanes. I found this community when I was on the verge of giving up on micros. You guys all encouraged me and helped me through the learning curves and got me to the point where I started having some unique and successful ideas. I remember I used to go outside and check the wind to see if it was good enough flying weather. That was actually a thing! And I used to tune the “old school” way or “stingy” way but it never flew good in the wind. It finally clicked on a super windy day … I wanted to see if I could tune out the bumpy ride. It finally worked with triple digit pids, flew amazing, and was a totally random experiment. Tons of fun.


#213

Hello can anyone check my pids? It handles really well with no wobbles or shakes but when doing a hard sharp corner it seems to get a bit of prop wash, becomes unstable and then you have to let it settle before carrying on.
Apart from that it goes really well!

Build is

716 MMW insane’s
45mm H8 props
Light carbon frame
240HV my lipo
28g empty
38g AUW
Running standard motor layout


#214

I’d try lowering the pid terms a little then flying again. Everybody gets propwash, but yours sounds a little extreme. Yours are quite high (imho), and if high, the quad can get weird. Also, what’s your looptime at?


#215

I don’t think it’s your pids. You’re in the ball park. I just finished a similar build and maybe landed about 15 pts higher on D and P… but I didn’t have any major issues as I passed the point where you are now.

I think you need to turn ALL your filters back on and put D back on biquad. It’s not a low noise brushless rig… I personally think the filters help ALOT since we have to run such INSANE high pids on brushed. Think about it… even if it runs as smoothly as possible … we crank the volume to the max with triple digit pids. Every tiny bit of noise is amplified as a result. I no longer disable filters on brushed.

I do however disable rc interpolation on everything brushed We have no braking, no d term kick, and no reason to accept latency penalties for rc smoothing.


#216

T, think you tune one quad on betaflight and now you know everything?!?!
Just Playing, thats really good input. I have my filters turned off as he does… I bet we have all watched JB videos… and copied his settings. Good point on the high noise and massive pids cranking the noise up. Honest to gosh my p’s are (from memory) 198, 170, 200. Like extremely high. As I was getting up there I was experiencing problems, but tuned those out by going EVEN higher. Probably safe to say I need a course in Proper PID tuning. I tune in my OSD so its easy to fly 10 secs, land, crank em up, fly… rinse repeat.


#217

Exactly this! Micros just don’t follow the same rules. We need those filters … badly!

I think we need different pidsum limits and integral limits set on cli too. I wonder if we aren’t clipping beyond a certain mid motor speed with limits set where they are default tailored to high powered 5" racers.

Oh and yeah … I’m gonna quit my job and focus on my youtube channel fulltime next too! Lmfao!


#218

@MidnightQuads Im running 8k/8k looptimes

@NotFastEnuf I’ll turn filters back on tonight and test tomorrow, I wondered if my battery couldn’t handle the power needed to perform the manoeuvre.
How do I go about removing "rc interpolation?


#219

Its in the receiver section. Default is auto… turn it off. Your sticks will wake up! That unfortunately is not related to your tuning situation. Try putting your filters back to defaults … biquad back on D term … then keep tuning up till your flight issues go away. Toss another 15 points at P and D … even more if it still wont behave. I suggest you solve the big bobble by adding just P though. Once you get enough P - those big bobbles will become a tight oscillation. Then raise D to silence the tight oscillation.


#220

@NotFastEnuf all filters back on to default. I will have a look in the receiver tab for that.
Right tomorrow I will give it a shot and report back!
Many thanks