Meteor 75 Lite (Silverware Lite) RTF Micro Quad

[cyclicalobsessive]

I am an FPV noob. Immersing myself in FPV knowledge sources, while my thumbs slowly learn how to keep my “whiny” micro quad from wedging under the furniture.

I purchased the BetaFPV Advanced Whoop Racing Kit V2 which comes with:

• BetaFPV Meteor 75 Lite Brushless Quad with a Silverware Lite FC
• BetaFPV LiteRadio 2 which is OpenTX based, recognized as Taranis by Velocidrone on my Mac
• BetaFPV VR01 FPV Goggles

When I asked on intoFPV for detuning advice on the quad, I was told “No one here runs Silverware”. After watching a Joshua Bardwell interview of Patrick J Clarke, and hearing that there are folks flying brushed micro quads, Silverware, and Angle mode, I stumbled upon this MMW community.

BetaFPV currently (Sept 2020) ships this frankenstein quad (Brushless with Silverware Lite) with a Beta65S instruction manual, and does not yet sell the frame separately.

The default PIDs and Rates for the Meteor 75 Lite are:

PIDs
             R        P       Y
    - KP    0.14    0.14    0.24
    - KI    1.4     1.4     1.4
    - KD    0.57    0.57    0.05
 
Rates
- Rate: 0860
- Rate_Yaw: 0500
- Profile A

I’m going to try lowering the Rates a little, but getting the hang of altitude control, especially when using yaw seems like my biggest challenge right now. If I understand correctly, changing the throttle response curve is not possible with my LiteRadio 2 controller.

Q) What is “Profile A” and is there a “dumb this thing down for the noob” profile?

[jumper047]

Seems like you can read about profiles here - LiteSilverware/pid.c line 35.
Also, manual for your FC also might be helpful - Manual%20for%20Lite%201S%20Brushless%20FC.pdf

By the way, interesting, why they don’t sell this quad separately? I noticed this kit, but thought included regular meteor to it.

[Tokyo_Dom]

Roll/pitch Rates (in Silverware at least) have no effect on stability/level mode. But actually you might find the opposite with regards to managing throttle while turning with yaw. Higher rates on yaw means you need less stick deflection to turn and hence you are less likely to accidentally change throttle while doing it.

Also, you can set up throttle curves and expo etc on this radio, it’s just you do it via the opentx companion on your PC. You can also set up switches to do various things like control rates from your tx. However, there isn’t much info on the companion software - i figured out how to use it by watching configuration videos on the transmitter (it’s the same options/settings in Companion just layed out differ ntly)

So I would recommend leaving the rates, and perhaps adding a throttle curve on your transmitter, which you can gradually remove.

[Tokyo_Dom]

Profile A/B is about stick transitions or something like that. I had that enabled on a switch but to be honest I couldn’t feel the difference (I have improved since then so maybe I’ll notice it now).

To dumb things down I would recommend lowering your Max angle to 30-40, however this wasn’t added as an option in the OSD menu. And compiling/flashing your own firmware to lower that value isn’t very newbie friendly
Instead you could lower the rates on the transmitter side. In open companion, edit the model AE-BUS and in the mixer tab you can set the roll/pitch outputs to 50% and start from there?

[cyclicalobsessive]

@jumper047

why they don’t sell this quad separately?

I posed this question to them as part of a service request, but the question was not addressed.

They are sending me a replacement frame. The kit case squeezed the quad making one duct out of round enough for the propeller to dig a gash half way through the frame, before I noticed and cut away some of the case foam.

[cyclicalobsessive]

@Tokyo_Dom

you can set up throttle curves and expo etc on this radio, it’s just you do it via the opentx companion on your PC

Cool, I’ll look into that.

[Tokyo_Dom]

Ok so to connect to the OpenTX companion, hold the setup button and tap the power button. Dont need to hold the power button, just a tap is fine, there will be no indication you did it correctly, except that the LED wont light up. Normally if you tap the power button the led will light up green until it powers up.

I think Betafpv have instructions on how to set this up, so i’ll assume you are in the screen with the Lite Radio profile, with a single model AE-SBUS listed on it - double click that.

From there, i am not sure whether its best to change it on the Mixes or Outputs. I am not so familiar with OpenTX, and i dont think i have Outputs on my Jumper T8SG. So out of familiarity i would have chosen Mixes. Set up Weight to 50 or 60% and see how that feels for Pitch/Roll. For throttle, you should set up a curve instead i think (because you need throttle to go down to -100% to arm!). Switch to the curves tab and check curve 1. From there you can drag the dots to make it look smooth, or set the curve type to maximum 17 points and use the curve creator. I am sure Joshua Bardwell has a video explaining this better. But for me, i found this to be a good compromise:
Curve type 17 points
Curve Creator type Linear
Y at X=-100 -70
Y at X=100 100
Apply
then drag the left most 2 points down to zero. You need to do this or the quad wont arm (throttle will be too high). This means there will be a deadspot of about the first 10% of the throttle stick, but then it will jump up to -48%. The quad will probably not even hover at this level, but it will mean hover will be at a very low stick position. But then you have the full flight throttle response over the whole stick travel, so it will be a bit more doughy to throttle stick changes.

finally go back to the Mixes tab, find the throttle channel (Note CH1 is not throttle. AETR so CH3 is throttle despite saying I3:ELE), and from the dropdown for Curve, select Curve and the Curve1 you just edited.

[cyclicalobsessive]

Phenomenal!

I managed to figure out I needed OpenTx 2.2.4 to work with the LiteRadio2. I am running on a Mac with the latest OS X, so I was worried it might not be compatible but it worked.

1. I got connected to the radio using the Taranis X7 “radio” setting,
2. then downloaded the radio firmware and
3. read the model and settings from the LiteRadio2, then
4. saved everything as LiteRadio2_factory.osx and
5. saved the firmware as LiteRadio2_factory_firmware.bin

I understand your guidance completely now. (Previously, I was a little confused when I watched a Joshua Bardwell video on shifting the transmitter throttle curve as linear from -100% to +50% throttle.)

The other confusing thing was the switches on the LiteRadio2 are labeled SA (2pos), SB (3pos), SC (3pos), SD (2pos), but the model read from the radio maps SA (3pos), SB (3pos), SF (2pos), SH (2pos) and nothing hints that the switch positions and values cause “Arm”, “Acro”, “Angle”, “Turtle”, or the other combination modes.

Thanks - It is good not to feel alone in this quest.

[g4m3fre4k]

Welcome home bro
I found this place originally cause I need a new pinion gear for a syma x5c. That FC is now in a tiny whoover, but need to put it in a silverwhoop plane.
Look into both when you have a minute.

[cyclicalobsessive]

Here is a short video of my 15th flight investigating throttle position for hover:

[Tokyo_Dom]

You will soon find there is no one set hover throttle position. It depends on the battery voltage, whether you are moving forward or sideways or the temperature or whether the quad is in a good mood. The way I learned is to feather the throttle so that I maintain my height. Realizing when you are falling and when you are rising is something that comes with experience. I used to kangaroo bounce all over the place trying to maintain a low flight but it’s quite easy now.

About the switches yes that’s confusing. SF (in opentx companion) is the top left button and that’s the arm switch. SA is the three position switch on the left and that’s angle/acro. The other two I don’t quite remember right now

[cyclicalobsessive]

Thanks for the encouragement. I should name my quad “Kangaroo” - great description of how IT flies!

@Tokyo_Dom

About the switches yes that’s confusing. SF (in opentx companion) is the top left button and that’s the arm switch. SA is the three position switch on the left and that’s angle/acro. The other two I don’t quite remember right now

That’s what I was guessing. Here is the table I created for my switches:

[cyclicalobsessive]

@Tokyo_Dom Thank you so much for your summary of building and assigning a throttle curve.

It was very scary to write a change to the transmitter, but I pressed on against the fear. The first curve I tried applied too much power immediately, so I softened the lower range and put the new curve in.

Wow! I’m so excited with this improvement.

I have only tested LOS for a 5 minute flight so far. It seems like I have much better control now. I can slowly raise and lower altitude, and did not smack the floor once in the whole flight, (well close a couple times, but arrested the descent just in time).

This is the curve I am trying:

p.s. Testing the curve, with the quad on my desk, holding a finger down on the canopy did not seem to work. I think the FC got confused why its commands were not resulting in the expected accelerations. Decreasing the throttle to 0 would not return the motors to idling. This test was sufficient to show me that the first curve raised the throttle too abruptly.

This was the first try:

For the second curve I put the quad on the floor and readied to disarm if reducing the throttle to 0 did not cause a descent. Luckily, I didn’t have to experience that, and the result seems to be a smooth success.

[Tokyo_Dom]

Great to hear, yes the first time ‘writing’ can be nerve-wracking. Its the same with flashing firmwares to the quad too. But once you get the first one done, it becomes easy
As for test flying, for me at least line of sight had no issues with throttle control (without curves). I had a very good visual on the precise height of the quad so i could control it much better.

The key is to make that shallow portion of the curve be around where the quad’s hover point is. So that small movements around that point wont drastically change the height, but when you do want to change the height it will do it without stress. Since there is no OSD to show you your throttle position when hovering, i would do the following:
Put back the linear throttle response
Fly the quad LOS and get it to a hover position over carpet or a bed or something soft (preferably do a low hover, like 30cm off the ground)
While hovering take your finger off the throttle and hit the disarm switch
Now look at where the throttle position is in regards to the stick position. Then you can edit your curve to position your curve around this point.

Also, i find it a good idea to keep my finger on the disarm switch, or ready to hit it at all times when flying. You want to disarm very quickly when you crash, especially when flying near people. Those props can be spinning at 30,000 RPM, and they can grab a lot of hair/grass/gravel in half a second of contact (500 turns!!)

[cyclicalobsessive]

The throttle curve really helped, (and more stick time of course)

[Tokyo_Dom]

I shall call you Skippy for now

Its so much fun watching and feeling the progression. I wish i had recorded my early flights like that. Btw might consider putting some furniture felt pads on the bottoms of your motors since you have tiled floors thats quite the shock being sent through the quad when you bounce

[cyclicalobsessive]

@Tokyo_Dom

I shall call you Skippy for now

… fun watching and feeling the progression.

… consider felt pads on the bottoms of your motors

Felt pads are a great idea. I’m not dropping from the ceiling like earlier, but still smacking from over controlling.

I am really having fun, although the anxiety is right up there with the first time my Private Pilot instructor got out of the plane and said “your plane.”

I was watching a review of the X02 goggles where the user commented “Initially the goggles felt like watching from outside the quad where the large view of the box goggles gave a feeling of being in the quad.”

Indeed, when the quad gets up near the ceiling or near a breakable nik-nak, there is a really scary feeling of “being” in an unusual and uncomfortable place.

Skipping along near the floor feels so safe, I really have to push myself to get some air under me.

[Tokyo_Dom]

Man that takes me back. I did my solo after 5 and a half hours. Not sure if i was a talented student or i had a cowboy instructor who just wanted to see what could happen. We were doing touch and go’s and then he started whispering into the mic to the tower and i couldnt quite catch what he said… then he turns and says “ok now do a complete landing and stop at the end of the runway” which i did and suddenly he jumped out as if he was a fare dodging taxi passenger yelling “good luck!”

But yeah i still get a bit freaked when i get up high now. Doesnt help that i am scared of heights. I am taking part in a competition at the moment (International game of whoop, IGOW) and one of the challenges was a building dive, go up at least 4 floors, point her straight down and pull up right before you hit the ground… now that rivalled the fear factor of that first solo flight i tell ya!

[cyclicalobsessive]

@Tokyo_Dom

I shall call you Skippy for now

Its so much fun watching and feeling the progression.

It had to happen - 56 flights, four and a half hours, and I’m finally feeling brave enough to venture where trees and poles are waiting to snatch me from the sky and home roofs are ready to hold my quad captive!

[Tokyo_Dom]

I’d be more worried about hard patio bounces than soft grass bounces!

But also, is the video feed clearer in the goggles? Because that’s a hell of a lot of break up for flying around your yard with no obstructions!