Micro Motor Community

How to fly on "rails"?


Wasnt sure quite where to put this but curious after watching my flying post flight i tend to fly more like i am on ice, i drift a lot… i notice the great pilots flying seemingly like they are on rails, like its an invisible rollercoaster [speaking FPV here, not LOS]. i know lately i have been practicing a lot of the tail out circles [not sure what its called] where you circle say a tree trunk or post which might be really affecting my “straighter” flying.

i am really not sure how to approach what i am even asking, i just know its missing from my technique… which makes shooting gaps really hard. like i want to fly straight through it but end up drifting out of center and have to quickly correct.

is this just stick time and it works itself out? or something i need to think about and practice?

so take a figure 8, i tend to let my rear end slide out in the turns like drift cars drive, but would rather it be more accurate like an F1 car i guess?

here is the video from today that got me thinking about it

i was kind of irritated because this girl ran out on the field with her dog while i was flying and was wanting to play around with flips and stalls, but dont trust myself with people present… so just cruised around instead.



Maybe try rolling to the side more and pulling back rather than steering with yaw. Still very nice flying.



Don’t know how too answer your question but want to say wooow, what a nice clean video signal quality. :+1::+1:



I agree @chrisdo! Whats your vtx, stepup and cam?



so focus more on right stick input for steering than compensating with yaw? [mode 2 obviously], thinking about that i wonder if part of this has to do with all my years of playing FPS games… maybe mode 4 would be more natural?

re: video is a foxeer HD cam. its on a mini 224mm quad. benefits of brushless/bigger builds [cant fly it indoors easily… well safely]. currently have no FPV on micros set up after my VA1100 died, though it is raining today… might be a good day to start that project of the 3 vtx receivers i have so i can get my FPV micros back up and running now that actual winter weather has arrived.



Aahh. That explains the astonishing quality. Thought It was fpv recorded via goggles dvr, hmm.
For turns I try to pull back pitch stick while rolling and yawing to make them smooth and banked. But I need to practice 'cause my flying looks worse if I see yours. Have to go outdoors since I’m mainly indoors right now.



also i forgot to mention, full acro/rate mode… which i think sometimes i have roll still there and not centered back on roll level.

yeah, thats why i was asking if anyone successfully got a 808#16D keychain cam working on a micro.



For me I find my rails when my yaw and roll are working together like they should. Slide out is usually caused by relying too much on yaw for turns. When going for a nice banked turn I go a little heavier on roll and light on yaw to create the bank, then throttle pulls you into the turn. Being more mindful of your inside roll will help put you on rails.

I’ve used an 808#16 on a micro but only via LOS. I havent done it with an FPV rig.



hmmm, maybe i should increase my YAW EXPO some, though i think its already quite high, like 0.70… maybe just work on some banked circles for a while with a nice even roll pitch, then find out where the sweet spot is on the yaw. kind of the opposite that i have been doing with the increased YAW for the tail out spins around a center point. i gues its called sideslipping. need to now do the opposite.



So I was watching a build livestreaming last night of a decent pilot. He uses 0.6 pitch, 0.6 roll, and 0.3 yaw rates… I have mine all at 0.6 in betaflight. Maybe my yaw rates are too high? I see so little information regarding rates and expo anywhere.

I see some out rc rate at >1, what does that do for example? Isn’t 1 the highest on the scale?



I almost always have yaw rate lower than pitch and roll. I find my yaw rate by doing test flights. I try fast 180s to get the right rate. If the 180 feels sluggish I raise the rate. If the 180 seems too fast and over shoots every time I lower the yaw rate. Eventually I find a spot in the yaw rate that responds properly to my stick style and gives me solid fast 180s but no over spin. Keep in mind while testing this you are doing a true 180 including inside roll input. You don’t want to just spin the yaw for testing.

RC Rate can be considered the overall gain of the RC input. Consider an RC Rate of 1 to be pure. Anything above is multiplying the overall RC rate and anything below is slowing it down. The RC Rate can absolutely go above 1, and you will see this a lot with Pro FPV ers and LOS acrobatics. It’s like juicing up the whole rig. Lower RC rates are also common… It kinda depends on your flying style.

Recently I’ve been flying my micros with RC Rate at 1, Pitch and Roll at 1, and Yaw at .70. Rc Expo at .15. Super aggressive and responsive.



So a RC rate of 1.25 makes the pitch/roll/yaw rate of say 0.5 really fly like 0.65 if RC was set to 1?

I initially set up 3 profiles with 0.4, 0.6, and 0.8 as all my rates with 0.6 expos and a RC rate of 1. Was always in the two faster rates but since 0.8 felt twitchy at times I have gone to 0.6 right now. Also I have been playing between PID2 mostly which is twitchier and past 2 times PID1 which is smoother.

So maybe raise my pitch and roll to 0.7 and drop yaw to 0.5? I do use J turns at times though which is why I have kept my yaw equal. I just need to lose this drifting that I have been seeing while flying and watching playback.



I imagine the smallest stick movements sends it twitching… Maybe I am too heavy handed on my sticks.



I’d say that’s a fair statement.



Don’t forget if you like the higher rates but it feels too twitchy you can add some rc expo to soften the stick centers but keep the higher rates on the outside of the stick throws.



Ah, so once I find a pitch/roll/yaw ratio I like but want more/less sensitivity I simply increase/decrease RC rate?

So I need to focus on my pitch/roll/yaw ratio right now to where I find a comfortable relationship.




Don’t forget about RC Expo as well, but your thought process is in the right place.



Forgot to mention PID tuning is a huge factor as well. If your PIDs aren’t tuned properly it can create the feeling of being floaty and take you off the “rails”.

I’ve noticed the floaty feeling when my P is too low or my D is too high. You could try adjusting this as well.



by floaty do you mean sliding around? sometimes it almost feels like i am travelling diagonally instead of forward… i have only been working on acro for a little while, maybe i have not recentered my roll enough? i dont feel like it would be oscillations or warbles. i am thinking its user error than PIDs but my skill level isnt enough to say its not PID settings either…

so current PIDs, which are defaults of betaflight.

PID1: MultiWii rewrite [flown this twice now, like it though… not as twitchy as l2]
Roll: 4 | 0.03 | 23
Pitch: 4 | 0.03 | 23
Yaw: 10 | 0.05 | 10

PID2: Luxfloat
Roll: 1.5 | 0.03 | 20
Pitch: 1.5 | 0.03 | 20
Yaw: 4 | 0.04 | 10

pitch/roll/raw RC all at 0.5 [didnt realize was lower, changed to Pitch/Roll 0.6, Yaw 0.4]



Unfortunately I can’t just look at your PIDs and say if its tuned right since each craft is different. I can say that nothing looks abnormal.

I’m currently spending more time in Acro myself and I can say without a doubt you have to pay attention to inside roll to prevent sliding. Hop on Freerider and see if you’re getting the slide outs you are explaining. That will let you know if its more of a error in piloting and you just need to adjust your stick control or if you need to adjust rates and PIDs.