First brushless build, what a journey! Air Ro 4"


#61

Hmmm. I have no clue. But it does sound like an interesting idea. :wink:

…insert joke about staying at a Holiday Inn Express last night… :stuck_out_tongue:


#62

"Power: 5v - 12v (recommend to filter FPV equipment)"
so 7.4 is ok

https://www.fpvheadquarters.com/foxeer-hs1177-ir-sensitive.html
its made with that plug to work with the common goggle batteries.
i have a tunable cam on the 210 yet have not tuned it yet.
let me know how it goes.


#63

Yes and yes.


#64

I still haven’t gotten around to tuning the hs1177, I may do that sometime this week though. but I did remember a place where i found really really nice settings for this camera

edit: Ive used these settings before and they work really good. I think contrast i set to 130 though… other than that, perfect settings.


#65

@denovich , something that has paralyzed the production of this build - I need 3.3v to power the dsmx reciever , but am not sure about where to get it from…

I see this which says “3.3v gnd DSM2”

Can i use this port to plug in a dsmx RX?

also, where can one purchase a whip antenna? ive been looking forever on many many sites and cannot find one that isn’t tooooo long…

I’m going to plan for a top mount battery i think. I think I will roll with your recommendation to decase the rx like you suggested and double side sticky tape it down to the bottom of the top plate somewhere…


#66

That is definitely the dsm port, 3.3v gnd dsm. Wouldn’t worry about it saying dsm2.
For whip antenna, just get a long one and cut the coax to a suitable length, long is good so you can position it in a clear space, away from props and the frame.
Edit: hmm, you’d need to solder on an sma too.
Edit pt2: scratch the antenna suggestion :upside_down_face:


#67

Yeah, that’s where to wire up the spek sat.

And I make whips from Rubber Ducky antennas (just cut the plastic shell off the crappy black plastic antennas you often get free.

Or make your own from coax

Or get them from BG they have a few varieties.
5.8G 2.8dBi SMA male RP-SMA Male FPV Antenna for FPV Racer Multicopters
https://banggood.app.link/HeJOCLPCqB

RP-SMA 5.8G 3dB Soft Omnidirectional High Gain Antenna RG 178 Cable
https://banggood.app.link/bqSrR1SCqB

I use the later


#68

Hey Man, sorry if this is annoying but I realized I actually have a totally different FC from the flip 32 f4…

I actually have the Acro cc3d revo f4 board i think

I am trying to bind my spektrum DSMX rx to this board, but nothing is really working… (I am such a non bind friendly quad builder lol )
I was having issues with the raceflight configurator (probably user error) so i successfully flashed betaflight into it
I have the 4pin connector with the 2nd red wire pulled out… this should leave me with a ground (first wire black) a 3.3v (third wire blue) and a signal (fourth wire yellow)… I know power can go to the RX, because I saw the light go solid when I plugged it into the 4pin flexi port just to see what would happen… lol so it’s not my soldering that is causing a lack of power to the rx…

I’m thinking it is my port configuration that is not allowing electricity to get directed to the 3.3v output I need on the main port…

This Is the port configuration I’ve been using… under spektrum 2048 dsmx… would you happen to know the proper configuration for this FC for dsmx sat RX off the main port?


#69

The signal level is 3.3v. It does not supply power at 3.3v.
You want to connect 3.3v to one of the boot pins (the easiest place to tap into the board’s 3.3v)


#70

Thanks for the help. Another noobie mistake… I am going to try to solder the 3.3v blue wire to a boot pin tonight when I go home and try again to get it all to bind… I feel like after I get past this hiccup, hopefully everythin should go smoothly! :smiley: lol! Crosses fingers

this build has been open for far too long. lol I am so anxious to fly it! :smiley:


#71

So a lot has transpired during this build, and many many things were learned during this process. It has been i believe 6 months ago when I first started this project try to learn about how to build a quadcopter from scratch… What i have learned is that it takes time, patience, and a lot of studying and learning from how other people have made theirs… Rome wasn’t built in a day.I’ve also learned there are an endless amount of routes to take when it comes to building a quadcopter, and there definitely is no single “Recipe for success” … Things either work, or they don’t; if they don’t you have to improvise, or find what does work.

I started this build with 1306 motors and a cc3d revo f4 FC, but after a lot of research I decided these components were not what I wanted in my quad. i am now ending the build with 1407 3200KV rcx motors and a raceflight revolt FC running Raceflight One :smiley:

I have noticed some cool things about this build though, and wanted to share it with the world in case anyone else is interested in this type of set up. Here are my observations!

Frame - apollo 130 atmospheric adventures - great frame design, i liked the fact that it had enough room for a full sized flight camera.

motors - I started with dys 1306 motors, but those only went up to 3S lipo power. I wanted a 4s capable rig, so i bought the rcx 1407 3200kv motors because i wanted it to be a torque machine. (These motors are bigger, and have more torque than the 1306 size motors.)

ESCs - I chose the littlebee 4 in1 ESC because it was a small build and i wanted it to look clean. I did not want ESCs laying on each arm… One of the biggest things that made this build so simple was the 4IN1 ESC unit.

I lucked out; most quads usually have a PDB, (power distribution board). The PDB is a separate board that is usually mounted on the bottom of the flight controller stack, and is required to distribute power between all the components… I was able to ELIMINATE the extra weight and SAVE SPACE on this build because the 4IN1 ESC already had built in power distribution. (Normally the power goes from the lipo battery —>to the PDB ----> then to the ESCs, but with a 4IN1 ESC, the power goes from the lipo battery —> straight to the 4in1ESC.

The next thing i needed to do was figure out what FC I wanted to use…

Flight controller - I originally had a cc3d revo f4 FC to use, but honestly it was kind of complicated and me being a technical nooby I wasn’t understanding how to use it, wire it up, or get it to work… I was referred to the Revolt FC from Raceflight by a couple of technical masterminds of this forum (THANK YOU!!!)…

Honestly, I feel that for ME, this was one of the best flight controller recommendations, period. Wiring up this flight controller was VERY simple. I took the 6 wire connector cable included in the 4in1 ESC and soldered the signal wires 1-4, and then 5v and gnd to power the FC from the 4in1 ESC :smiley:

I soldered a lemon RX DSMX diversity Rx, and through the Raceflight Configurator i was able to bind in a matter of a few seconds… I also was able to fully program that FC faster than ANY other flight controller I’ve ever messed with.

I then mounted the revolt FC/RX backpack unit onto the frame.

I then plugged in the 6 cable connector soldered on from the revolt into the 4in1 ESC.

After these steps were completed, I ran the Raceflight Configurator wizards which got my radio set up, updated and calibrated my ESCs for me, and basically was ready for a test flight… during the test flight my quad started break dancing upon arming. So I disarmed, and brought it back to the Raceflight Configurator where I was able to remap the motors very easily and quickly… Brought the quad back out for a test flight and she hovered PERFECTLY :smiley:

After this I soldered my FPV backpack together:

Flight cam - foxeer hs1177 camera
vtx - FX799t - I soldered the 3 wires from the camera to the 3 output wires of the VTX, and the - and + wires for the VTX got soldered to the - and + bat pads on the 4in1 ESC. I used a low temperature to solder these tiny wires onto the giant bat leads. Using a lot of flux made the process easier.

Here is a picture of all the components grouped and chillen together :smiley:

Here is a picture of the revolt/lemon RX backpack sitting on the stack , and the FPV backpack chillen on the side.

I plugged in via smoke stopper after connecting all the components together (frame/motors/4in1ESC + revolt fc/lemon RX + VTX with HS1177 camera ) and all was successful. no magic smoke!!!

dded some hot glue to my make shift antenna protectors… And here are some pictures of the final product! :smiley: a
Enjoy!!!

total weight is 163g without battery, and 235.5g with 650mah 4s battery…

I would like to thank @chrisdo @Brainstorm @burtlo @Bobnova @NotFastEnuf @Mullet @Denovich and EVERYONE else who helped me put this build together over the last 6 months… You guys are the best, and thank you so much for dealing with the thousands of questions… You guys and this hobby have taught me so much… I couldn’t ask for a better place to chill out on the internet… Once again, thank you kindly to all at micro motor community!

FINAL NOTE - if you LOVE building, but HATE programming, go with RACEFLIGHT capable FC. :smiley:
It made my life 10000000000 times simpler. RACEFLIGHT Configurator basically did all the programming work for me, while i focused on physical aspects of the build… such a perfect little system they got going on there…


#72

I been running emax 1306 on a atom 122 using 4s lipos,yes they get hot but they seem to lap the heat up like they cant get enough,running tri blades also,so they come down realy hot!
:smile:


#73

:smiley: lol nice! I plan on running those 1306 motors i took off with 4s on the Community Build project - glad to hear that ur motors are actually working for you on 4s, adds much more confidence to my plans!

is that an FPV set up or a LOS set up?


#74

Its fpv setup and realy fast,on 1407 tornados this atom would be scary.i am just struggling with the vtx as it breaks up,realy hard to get a good pic without blackbanding.could be vtx,antenna or oscillations.
:smile:


#75

Really glad it worked for you. It’s a relief actually. I always feel responsible when I give advice or say what works for me. Excellent looking build. It will be very durable you will enjoy it quite a big. Keep an eye out for the new RaceKraft 3" props on the way. I saw pre-production tris, quads and pentas… all with a variation of that Double Crane blade shape.

Edit: the tris are available now: RK3076 they look amazing


#76

#vr NAME:RaceFlight One;VERSION:0.195.058 RC1;CONFIG:58
#fl size=0
#fl total=16777216
#me modes active: 0
modes ARMED=5=75=100
modes ATTITUDE=0=0=0
modes FAILSAFE=0=0=0
modes LOGGING=6=67=100
modes BUZZER=6=-25=25
modes LEDMODE=0=0=0
modes LEDCOLOR=0=0=0
modes DIRECT=0=0=0
set mixer_type=0
set famx=0.940
set mixer_style=0
set esc_protocol=0
set esc_frequency=32000
set idle_percent=5.000
set idle_percent_inv=8.000
set mout1=2
set mout2=3
set mout3=0
set mout4=1
set mout5=4
set mout6=5
set mout7=6
set mout8=7
set led_count=16
set led_red=10
set led_green=0
set led_blue=0
set led_mode=0
set telem_sport=0
set telem_spek=0
set telem_msp=0
set telem_mavlink=0
set gyro_rotation=6
set board_calibrated=1
set sml_board_rot_x=0
set sml_board_rot_y=0
set sml_board_rot_z=0
set rf_loop_ctrl=16
set yaw_kp=130.000
set roll_kp=120.000
set pitch_kp=130.000
set yaw_ki=1500.000
set roll_ki=1200.000
set pitch_ki=1600.000
set yaw_kd=1400.000
set roll_kd=1700.000
set pitch_kd=1900.000
set yaw_ga=0
set roll_ga=0
set pitch_ga=0
set slp=10.000
set sli=1.000
set sla=40.000
set sld=0.300
set filter_mode0=0
set filter_mode1=0
set filter_mode2=2
set yaw_quick=30.000
set yaw_rap=88.000
set roll_quick=60.000
set roll_rap=88.000
set pitch_quick=60.000
set pitch_rap=88.000
set yaw_kd_rap=90.000
set roll_kd_rap=90.000
set pitch_kd_rap=90.000
set x_vector_quick=2.000
set x_vector_rap=25.000
set y_vector_quick=2.000
set y_vector_rap=25.000
set z_vector_quick=2.000
set z_vector_rap=25.000
set rx_protocol=2
set rx_usart=0
set rx_inv_direction=0
set pitch_deadband=0.004
set roll_deadband=0.004
set yaw_deadband=0.005
set throttle_deadband=0.000
set aux1_deadband=0.000
set aux2_deadband=0.000
set aux3_deadband=0.000
set aux4_deadband=0.000
set pitch_midrc=1024
set roll_midrc=1024
set yaw_midrc=1024
set throttle_midrc=1024
set aux1_midrc=1024
set aux2_midrc=1024
set aux3_midrc=1024
set aux4_midrc=1024
set pitch_minrc=344
set roll_minrc=1702
set yaw_minrc=1704
set throttle_minrc=342
set aux1_minrc=1704
set aux2_minrc=1704
set aux3_minrc=1704
set aux4_minrc=1704
set pitch_maxrc=1705
set roll_maxrc=344
set yaw_maxrc=344
set throttle_maxrc=1706
set aux1_maxrc=344
set aux2_maxrc=344
set aux3_maxrc=344
set aux4_maxrc=344
set pitch_map=2
set roll_map=1
set yaw_map=3
set throttle_map=0
set aux1_map=4
set aux2_map=5
set aux3_map=6
set aux4_map=7
set aux5_map=8
set aux6_map=9
set aux7_map=10
set aux8_map=11
set aux9_map=12
set aux10_map=13
set aux11_map=14
set aux12_map=15
set rc_calibrated=1
set stick_curve=4
set throttle_curve=0
set aux1_curve=0
set aux2_curve=0
set aux3_curve=0
set aux4_curve=0
set pitch_expo=50.000
set roll_expo=50.000
set yaw_expo=50.000
set throttle_expo=0.000
set aux1_expo=0.000
set aux2_expo=0.000
set aux3_expo=0.000
set aux4_expo=0.000
set bind=0
set pitch_rate=400.000
set roll_rate=400.000
set yaw_rate=400.000
set pitch_acrop=140.000
set roll_acrop=140.000
set yaw_acrop=140.000
set drunk=0.010
set skunk=50.000


#77

Try these settings for 275:

#Direct on when armed. I usually have this on a separate switch, so I can flick it and feel the difference. I like it on.
modes DIRECT=5=75=100
#some RF1 voodoo
set res_redux=1
set tpa_kp_curve_type=1
set tpa_ki_curve_type=1
set tpa_kd_curve_type=1
#your motor mapping from 195
set mout1=2
set mout2=3
set mout3=0
set mout4=1
#filter settings Quick is the Gyro filter, kd_rap is the D term filter
set yaw_quick=70.000
set roll_quick=60.000
set pitch_quick=60.000
#GA = gyro average. Only use it on yaw… and test with it off. Sometimes 0 is best.
set yaw_ga=6
set roll_ga=0
set pitch_ga=0
#if you have propwash, you can raise this as high as 90. But take short test flights. If too high, motors will get REAL hot.
#kd_rap is a filter on the D term.
set yaw_kd_rap=60.000
set roll_kd_rap=60.000
set pitch_kd_rap=60.000

#between 20-35 for P seems to be useful range (30 = default on latest builds)
set yaw_kp=24.000
set roll_kp=23.000
set pitch_kp=26.000

#anywhere between 30-50 for I
set yaw_ki=30.000
set roll_ki=30.000
set pitch_ki=30.000

#dterm anwhere from about 25-50 works… I tend not to adjust Dterm much
set yaw_kd=15.000
set roll_kd=35.000
set pitch_kd=35.000
set yaw_rap=0.000
set roll_rap=0.000
set pitch_rap=0.000
set kd_limit=0.350
set ki_limit=0.100

#rates A bit more expo and a bit less Acro+ than stock
#seems like a good compromise for race/freestyle
set pitch_rate=400.000
set roll_rate=400.000
set yaw_rate=400.000
set pitch_acrop=120.000
set roll_acrop=120.000
set yaw_acrop=50.000
set pitch_expo=60.000
set roll_expo=60.000
set yaw_expo=60.000


#78

And just so you know. Lower numbers now = less filter.

Oh and Quick is the filter value.

So 10 is almost none
And 90 is almost max.

A few quads can get down to 10, most 30-70. My Tornado 1407 T1s have really pronounced noise issues. The motors are sooo coggy. I think you have 1407s that are more like the ones I flew last year. They should be easy to get a good tune with.


#79

I am reviving this thread to finish off the story of this build. (It has been a CRAZY journey, but In a very good way.)

So this particular build started off as a 3" micro FPV quad. I started this build with the Apollo 130 3" frame. After the physical part of the build was completed, I was on to learning how to tune it… I was brand new to raceflight/betaflight, not very good with electronics, and had minimal experience in this hobby, so I was unaware of what to really look for… After weeks/months of messing around with trying to tune this thing, and after numerous trips of going to the park and retuning, I realized the reason why I couldn’t get it to that “locked in on rails” feeling was due to an issue with center of gravity. Mounting the battery on the bottom of this particular frame made it so that it was near impossible to tune it and keep it locked in on rails! No amount of I term fixed this, and I was getting very frustrated… Since the frame was a inverse stretched X frame (or wide X) with a bottom mount battery, it was just screaming Center of Gravity issues (COG) issues…

At that point I could have top mounted on the apollo 130 and it would have definitely flown much much better, but then I would have had to rework the build and at that point I was just far too lazy to put any more effort into that frame… It had already burned me for months, so I was flat out done with it.

That’s when notfastenuf introduced me to the Kinetic Arial 4" Air Ro frame. Stretched X, simple, clean frame, offering 20x20 or 30.5x30.5 mounting, and plenty of space to work with! I fell in love and immediately ordered it. After I swapped the electronics from the Apollo to the Air Ro , it was a night and day difference. COG issues were totally gone!!!

I could fly it as a 3" , or as a 4" on 4s, with the same raceflight PIDs for each prop size. It just WORKED, and it works VERY WELL :slight_smile: with 4" props it hovers at 17% throttle (DAYUMNNNN thats low! :smiley: ) lol it without a doubt hauls ass and covers so distance very quickly. So for smaller fields and backyard tracks I’ll pop on some 3" props and I’m ready to go! 3" props are way easier on my batteries too lol the 4" props soaks up the juice pretty fast!

The frame is really well made using super high quality carbon. Using 1407 3200kv motors I’m pretty sure their is no ugly noise feeding to the gyro, no bad vibrations… Top notch, high quality, and it just flies perfectly. I sanded the edges with a file and used superglue to prevent any delamination of the frame as well.

I was flying at 45* tilt for quite a few weeks and it just zips around like its nobodies business. It truly screams at top speed. It also turns on the dime with agility of a ninja… Since then I’ve put on the 35* camera mount and I can still race around, but also comfortably do some freestyle as well. This frame is perfect for cruising the field, scoping the track, racing the track and overall general flying! :slight_smile:

Here is a link to kinetic Arial:

I highly recommend everyone check them out because they are definitely a top notch American brand with really high quality products made by cool people who love to fly, just like us. (Not an affiliate link, just a recommendation to a great brand with quality frames!..)

https://kineticaerial.com/

I’ve learned so much and am still learning new things as each day passes thanks to this crazy hobby we all love! It’s cool because what I’ve learned from this hobby i am applying to every day real life and I feel as I grow in this hobby I also grow as a person. Thanks to all in this amazing community, I could have never gotten started without mmwc.

It weighs 170.4g without battery, 239.7g with 650mah 4s lipo (yay 4" under 250g! :slight_smile: ) Could be way lighter with a runcam micro swift and a atx03, but one day at a time! :slight_smile:

Lastly, I leave you with a family picture! Fly safely, everyone!


#80

Fantastic writeup, @quadlifepro! This is what it’s all about! :grin: