Micro Motor Community

Brushless whoop Quest?


#1

Hello there ! (@tarkux, @monkeymagic, @Minonicanimonico, @Imozeb, @NotFastEnuf, I mention you guys as you were involved in some brushless whoop other topics)

I’ve been into FPV drone starting with an E011 and Silverware since last spring. I’m having a lot of fun with this toy but my consciousness have some trouble when I have to throw away a motor because of worn brushes or by giving a blown lipo to the collect waste…

Brushless whoopses seemed to me to be a more “sustainable” whoop, but on other hand, I red that they were no so good : heavy hardware needing more powerful batteries, brushless motors too small and dying like brushed…

Few days ago, I’ve found some very light hardware like tinnypepper’s 4 in 1 ESC and 0603 motors with the ability to change bearings. According to vendors datas ESC + 4 motors would weight around 7 grams (I miss the wires) where 4 brushed 716 weight around 13 grams (with wires)…

I would like to know what you guys think about brushless whoopses nowadays :

How is your experience with so small brushless motors (life time, vulnerability…) ? Does some of you tried a whoop brushless flavour ?

I’me asking this with a “whoopish-style” of flying in mind. I mean mostly indoors or backyards, and not “full throttle on football stadium” fly style…

@NotFastEnuf, on post 4 of this topic (07xx vs 11xx Brushless Motors for a Whoop? ) you were explaining your detailed view about brushless whoops and how you finally stayed into brushed ones. Is your opinion similar after almost one year ?

Looking forward to read from you guys,

Here are the links to motors and ESC :
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SE0603-KV16000-19000KV-Brushless-Motor-1S-0-8mm-1mm-shaft-for-FPV-Quadcopter-RC-Racer-Drone/32860517954.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.266.191e3c007Vc25Z
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Electronic-Speed-Controllers-4A-1S-Blheli-S-D-shot-Oneshot-600-Ready-4-in-1-ESC/32845475246.html?spm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.272.68c73c00HDwAbe


#2

Hi!

I found that anything smaller than 11xx still breaks way too much that it is sometimes cheaper to just get brushed whoops.

That said, I did design and 3D print a custom 1S 1102 brushless whoop based off tinyfish hardware. It’s about the same size as an 0716 whoop, lower profile, top mounted battery, and pretty durable.

It has about 3min flight time and is pretty durable if you don’t slam it too hard.

Only thing is that it requires custom batteries and I don’t know how comfortable you feel doing that. It’s pretty dangerous if you are not careful.

Here’s a vid of it:


#3

Yep, I’m still on team brushed. The way I fly, no motor lasts me including brushless all the way up in size. Sometimes a new set of brushless only gets 3 or 4 flights before a few go in the bin from smacking the pavement.

Specifically for whoops though, brushless eat batteries much faster than brushed. And no batteries last very long anyway no matter what you fly them on.

This said, I do have some tiny set of motors here, and I’m going to build a 1s brushless whoop. I’ve ordered the frame (slow boat)… I’ll report back with my experience.


#4

You should look into 0603, 1s and 31mm props. This seems to be a good combination, light enough not to crumple instantly and decent efficiency. https://rotorbuilds.com/build/10267


#5

Personally I think any brushless motor smaller than 1102 lacks consistent build quality - many have had bad experience and others are 200+ packs in on the original motors.

Indoors I prefer a brush whoop with NFE’s excellent tune and 716 motors

Outdoor I find any propeller shroud a pain in the backside and don’t like the way they handle. I look at vids of the 65x and 75x and they look like a compromise. I much prefer a superlight 2s micro based on 1102 or 1103 motors, here is an earlier build I did.

I’m about to start a similar 2s build though based around the crazybee f3 pro which should be close to 30g. Whatever you do weight is critical on micros.


#6

Whow !

Such a reactivity ! Thanks you 4 for answering so quickly.

@Imozeb, you said :

do you know from what died the ones you tried ?

And about your version, do you have more details somewhere online ?

@NotFastEnuf : Yeah from what I’ve seen you fly Hard ! I guess you brake shafts easily… About batteries, brushless should be more efficient so you would need less amps to get similar thrust, do you know what makes reality to be different ?

And yes, looking forward that the slow boat arrives to you !

@yets : Yep ! thanks for the link. I was thinking of something like that, using E011 FC to drive the ESC.


#7

I havnt actually tried anything smaller than 1102, but I know a few people who jumped on the hype train and the motors died from impacts, bent shafts, bad bearings since the bearings are so small etc.

The motors I used are Flex RC 1102 15000Kv. I did a thrust test with 1535 props if you would like to see that.


#8

Ok. I’ve seen your thrust test I think.

Motors I’m looking at have cir-clips that should allow you to change bearing if needed… and are both 0.8 or 1mm shaft, and 16000 or 19000Kv.

I think I should go rather for 1mm shaft and 16000Kv to maximize longevity. But yes just one cost a few 716s so you need to fly with care…


#9

If you want to whoop stay brushed, buy bulk and cheap and change as necessary. The quality control in tiny brushless motors is absolutely rubbish. Buy two sets and you might find 4 that are OK balance wise. Unbalanced motors rob you of power and flight time. Use reliable props such as eachine or tbs 4 blade.
Going brushless with 1102 motors is worthwhile but ditch ducts and enjoy the freedom.


#11

100% agree


#12

if your ditching the ducts go for a 1103 tinyshark build! 1s ripper, and nice motors. falconmultirotors.com/tinyshark.html frame is great
https://www.racedayquads.com/products/racerstar-1103b-br1103b-10000kv-motor these motors are the best micro motors i’ve flown


#13

I’m flying a 69mm machine with KK 1535 props on 2S (and 3S with custom ESC), custom classic CF frame, top mount battery.
Preferred motors: BR1103B 10000KV / Eachine 1102 11500KV.
Why?

Press fit props just don’t work for me. On 3S they just don’t cut it (extreme RPMs with 1535 props, you want properly mounted props that don’t fly away mid air).

Additionally, the first generation of smaller motors 060X/070X seemed to have massive quality issues and the 110Xs aren’t super awesome either. But they are affordable, come with real ball-bearings and are the lesser evil. Let me know if you find/know a 060X/070X/080X/090X with proper bearings, proper t-mount mounting holes that also performs reasonably well.


#14

Thanks everybody for your feedback !

From what I read here, it seems that your are mostly suspicious about quality of very small brushless. I understand your advice about aiming at bigger size that would give both more reliability and power… But then I’m afraid of I would not have fun with it inside, scratching walls and everything around, and breaking to many propellers.

@las, I’m waiting a bit more feedback from Micromaniac on rotorbuild (link posted by yets on post 4). And I will maybe give a try to those motors. I’m hesitating as he already said it was still more expensive to use them even if they lasted longer than brushed, from his experience.


#15

I’ve tried a couple different frames, FCs and motors now on my brushless whoop over the past 3 months or so since losing my first (brushed) whoop and I haven’t really been happy with any setup so far. I didn’t try any of the BNF ones but form what I’ve seen they suffer from similar issues. I am going through frames like crazy and I have lost count of how many times I repaired my motor wires. They’re much thicker than brushed motor wires and there’s 50% more of them and all the current frames do a really bad job of protecting them. Also I find myself cleaning the crap that gets stuck in them too often. I’ve had all kinds of performance issues with random motors not spinning, or stopping in the air etc.

I just don’t think brushed whoops have anything to worry about yet. 2s sounded interesting to me at first, but it seems to only be worth it on 75mm and I have a too small apartment for those so I think I’d just rather fly my 2.5" then.

I am excited about Emax TinyHawk even though it’s a bit bigger. It did something new with frame and prop design (and wow their new 2 and 2.5 inch props have been flying great and very durable for me so I believe these will be too) and it seems to have higher quality motors with proper bearings and all… There might be some space in my life between my Zer0 whoop and 2.5" for something like that :smile:


#16

Hey you might want to look into the HappyModel Mobula7. looks pretty amazing 0802 size motors 1s for indoor, 2s for unimaginable whoop speeds and power… check out what UAVfutures says about them: https://youtu.be/3yxGo3oiPgA I ordered one like 3 weeks ago and its shipped, but I ordered a second one 4 days ago and its on backorder… I’m pretty sure its the way to go for whooping (besides NFE silverware on a E011) but I’ll let everyone know for sure when I get my first one :grin:


#17

TBH I am having a very hard time understanding why this thing got everyone so excited. It doesn’t seem to fly anywhere close to the the good whoops on 1s and on 2s you can have a proper 2" beast with carbon frame instead of plastic ducted one.


#18

I guess I’ll be comparing 1s indoor to a 0716 brushed whoop, and 2s at the park to a blade torrent. I have proper 2.5" 4s for ripping, but the looks on stranger’s faces noticeably changed when I stepped up to ductless 2.5"-3" and not in a good way… but the mobula7 takes whoop batteries for 2s, and 1s batteries are easier to charge. Maybe I’ll get it and it will suck, but UAVfutures makes it look really good.


#19

I would swap out to jst and use my Tattu 2s bats instead of two 1s.