BeeCore F3 EVO on 225mm frame with geared motors...unstable, please advise


#1

I’ve got a Beecore F3 EVO on a 225mm frame that I want to be able to fly with my Taranis. Here is a picture of the unit,

Note that the board is upside down and rotated 45 degrees counterclockwise from the standard installation.

I am having several problems with this build. Primarily, it is very unstable and difficult to fly. The quad will not hover on it’s own using ANGLE mode. I have calibrated the accelerometer per the instructions in CleanFlight. If I switch to HEADLESS mode I can force it to hover “okay” with a lot of manual input from the right stick, (aircraft keeps wanting to roll right).

Here is a screengrab from CleanFlight of the PID settings and below that a DUMP from CLI. I’d really like to get this build working. All suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.

version

Cleanflight/SPRACINGF3EVO 1.13.0 Jun 6 2016 / 00:03:29 (a77bc76)

dump master

mixer

mixer QUADX
mmix reset
smix reset

feature

feature -RX_PPM
feature -VBAT
feature -INFLIGHT_ACC_CAL
feature -RX_SERIAL
feature -MOTOR_STOP
feature -SERVO_TILT
feature -SOFTSERIAL
feature -GPS
feature -FAILSAFE
feature -SONAR
feature -TELEMETRY
feature -CURRENT_METER
feature -3D
feature -RX_PARALLEL_PWM
feature -RX_MSP
feature -RSSI_ADC
feature -LED_STRIP
feature -DISPLAY
feature -ONESHOT125
feature -BLACKBOX
feature -CHANNEL_FORWARDING
feature -TRANSPONDER
feature VBAT
feature INFLIGHT_ACC_CAL
feature RX_SERIAL
feature MOTOR_STOP
feature FAILSAFE
feature TELEMETRY
feature CURRENT_METER
feature RSSI_ADC
feature BLACKBOX
feature TRANSPONDER

map

map TAER1234

serial

serial 20 1 115200 57600 0 115200
serial 0 1 115200 57600 0 115200
serial 1 64 115200 57600 0 115200
serial 2 0 115200 57600 0 115200

led

led 0 15,15:ES:IA:0

led 31 0,0:::0

color

color 0 0,0,0

color 15 0,0,0

mode_color

mode_color 0 0 1

mode_color 6 7 6

set looptime = 2000
set emf_avoidance = OFF
set i2c_highspeed = ON
set gyro_sync = ON
set gyro_sync_denom = 1
set mid_rc = 1401
set min_check = 1100
set max_check = 1800
set rssi_channel = 0
set rssi_scale = 30
set rssi_ppm_invert = OFF
set rc_smoothing = OFF
set rx_min_usec = 885
set rx_max_usec = 2115
set serialrx_provider = SBUS
set sbus_inversion = ON
set spektrum_sat_bind = 0
set input_filtering_mode = OFF
set min_throttle = 1150
set max_throttle = 1800
set min_command = 1000
set servo_center_pulse = 1500
set motor_pwm_rate = 1000
set servo_pwm_rate = 50
set 3d_deadband_low = 1406
set 3d_deadband_high = 1514
set 3d_neutral = 1460
set retarded_arm = OFF
set disarm_kill_switch = ON
set auto_disarm_delay = 5
set max_arm_angle = 25
set small_angle = 25
set fixedwing_althold_dir = 1
set reboot_character = 82
set gps_provider = NMEA
set gps_sbas_mode = AUTO
set gps_auto_config = ON
set gps_auto_baud = OFF
set telemetry_switch = OFF
set telemetry_inversion = ON
set frsky_default_lattitude = 0.000
set frsky_default_longitude = 0.000
set frsky_coordinates_format = 0
set frsky_unit = IMPERIAL
set frsky_vfas_precision = 0
set hott_alarm_sound_interval = 5
set battery_capacity = 0
set vbat_scale = 110
set vbat_max_cell_voltage = 43
set vbat_min_cell_voltage = 33
set vbat_warning_cell_voltage = 35
set current_meter_scale = 400
set current_meter_offset = 0
set multiwii_current_meter_output = OFF
set current_meter_type = ADC
set align_gyro = CW0FLIP
set align_acc = CW0FLIP
set align_mag = CW0FLIP
set align_board_roll = 0
set align_board_pitch = 0
set align_board_yaw = 45
set max_angle_inclination = 500
set gyro_lpf = 188HZ
set gyro_soft_lpf = 60
set moron_threshold = 32
set imu_dcm_kp = 2500
set imu_dcm_ki = 0
set pid_at_min_throttle = ON
set yaw_motor_direction = 1
set yaw_jump_prevention_limit = 200
set tri_unarmed_servo = ON
set servo_lowpass_freq = 400.000
set servo_lowpass_enable = OFF
set failsafe_delay = 10
set failsafe_off_delay = 200
set failsafe_throttle = 1000
set failsafe_kill_switch = OFF
set failsafe_throttle_low_delay = 100
set failsafe_procedure = 0
set acc_hardware = 0
set baro_hardware = 0
set mag_hardware = 0
set blackbox_rate_num = 1
set blackbox_rate_denom = 1
set blackbox_device = SDCARD
set magzero_x = 0
set magzero_y = 0
set magzero_z = 0

rxfail

rxfail 0 a
rxfail 1 a
rxfail 2 a
rxfail 3 a
rxfail 4 h
rxfail 5 h
rxfail 6 h
rxfail 7 h
rxfail 8 h
rxfail 9 h
rxfail 10 h
rxfail 11 h
rxfail 12 h
rxfail 13 h
rxfail 14 h
rxfail 15 h
rxfail 16 h
rxfail 17 h

dump profile

profile

profile 0

aux

aux 0 0 0 1300 1700
aux 1 1 0 1300 1700
aux 2 5 1 1300 2100
aux 3 0 0 900 900
aux 4 0 0 900 900
aux 5 0 0 900 900
aux 6 0 0 900 900
aux 7 0 0 900 900
aux 8 0 0 900 900
aux 9 0 0 900 900
aux 10 0 0 900 900
aux 11 0 0 900 900
aux 12 0 0 900 900
aux 13 0 0 900 900
aux 14 0 0 900 900
aux 15 0 0 900 900
aux 16 0 0 900 900
aux 17 0 0 900 900
aux 18 0 0 900 900
aux 19 0 0 900 900

adjrange

adjrange 0 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 1 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 2 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 3 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 4 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 5 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 6 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 7 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 8 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 9 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 10 0 0 900 900 0 0
adjrange 11 0 0 900 900 0 0

rxrange

rxrange 0 1000 2000
rxrange 1 1000 2000
rxrange 2 1000 2000
rxrange 3 1000 2000

servo

servo 0 1000 2000 1500 45 45 100 -1

servo 7 1000 2000 1500 45 45 100 -1

set gps_pos_p = 15
set gps_pos_i = 0
set gps_pos_d = 0
set gps_posr_p = 34
set gps_posr_i = 14
set gps_posr_d = 53
set gps_nav_p = 25
set gps_nav_i = 33
set gps_nav_d = 83
set gps_wp_radius = 200
set nav_controls_heading = ON
set nav_speed_min = 100
set nav_speed_max = 300
set nav_slew_rate = 30
set alt_hold_deadband = 40
set alt_hold_fast_change = ON
set deadband = 0
set yaw_deadband = 0
set yaw_control_direction = 1
set 3d_deadband_throttle = 50
set throttle_correction_value = 0
set throttle_correction_angle = 800
set default_rate_profile = 0
set gimbal_mode = NORMAL
set acc_cut_hz = 15
set accxy_deadband = 40
set accz_deadband = 40
set accz_lpf_cutoff = 5.000
set acc_unarmedcal = ON
set acc_trim_pitch = 0
set acc_trim_roll = 0
set baro_tab_size = 21
set baro_noise_lpf = 0.600
set baro_cf_vel = 0.985
set baro_cf_alt = 0.965
set mag_declination = 0
set pid_controller = MWREWRITE
set p_pitch = 40
set i_pitch = 30
set d_pitch = 23
set p_roll = 40
set i_roll = 30
set d_roll = 23
set p_yaw = 85
set i_yaw = 45
set d_yaw = 0
set p_alt = 50
set i_alt = 0
set d_alt = 0
set p_level = 20
set i_level = 10
set d_level = 100
set p_vel = 120
set i_vel = 45
set d_vel = 1
set yaw_p_limit = 500
set dterm_cut_hz = 0
set gtune_loP_rll = 10
set gtune_loP_ptch = 10
set gtune_loP_yw = 10
set gtune_hiP_rll = 100
set gtune_hiP_ptch = 100
set gtune_hiP_yw = 100
set gtune_pwr = 0
set gtune_settle_time = 450
set gtune_average_cycles = 16

dump rates

rateprofile

rateprofile 0

set rc_rate = 90
set rc_expo = 65
set rc_yaw_expo = 0
set thr_mid = 50
set thr_expo = 0
set roll_rate = 0
set pitch_rate = 0
set yaw_rate = 0
set tpa_rate = 0
set tpa_breakpoint = 1500


#2

I’m also having issues with a Beecore in Angle mode… and I’m see to recall something that was intrinsic between the two that required special attention to make happen. Cool looking kit, I’ll be curious to see what you find.


#3

How does the model of the quad move when you first connect USB? Does it mimic the motion that you create or also go out of control?

I noticed from your dump that you are both spinning the sensors and rotating the yaw via different means. I’ve not had good luck myself using both types of changes to orientation at the same time. Since you have have a 45 degree yaw in there - I would change the sensor alignment back to default and reorient with a 180 degree roll (in the same column that you did the 45 degree yaw).

The difference between the two types of changes to orientation I recently learned from another member here is the type of math the board has to do to handle your inputs. Entering degrees is floating point math - but a f3 can handle that fine. No need to use the sensor alignment.

If that works, you could also use the mmix feature to remap where you plug in your motors … but one step at a time.


#4

If that doesn’t help, it may just be vibration related. An fc swamped in vibrations can drift off pretty hard to one side.


#5

geared set-ups are hard to tune,
there is a significant delay in motor to prop response in comparison to direct drive.
The only way to get it to fly well is to pid tune it properly.


#6

Thanks for the response. The screw mounts are,

  1. cushioned with silicone bushings, and
  2. 45 degrees off from the mount holes on standard micro-quads that the BeeCore is designed for.
    I have also flipped the board over because the motor electrical connectors are in the way of the arms. It is flipped over sideways, (0 degrees and 180 degrees are still pointing in the same direction, but 90 and 270 degrees are reversed)…on top of this is the 45 degree shift. I did try and move motor plugs around with no luck.
    I also tried this a few days ago…
    I created a Formica base that would rotate the board to the correct alignment, AND allow mounting the board with the plugs down. Then I noticed the software options in CleanFlight to adjust yaw 45 degrees and “flip” the board. I actually had very similar problems with the board mounted to the Formica in correct orientation as I have now with the board yawed 45 degrees and upside down. Additional possible problems with this configuration using the Formica is there were that there was no silicone bushing cushion on the board mounts to absorb vibration.
    I agree that a PID adjustment might be useful here. Thanks for your suggestions and ideas.

#7

Suggestions on PID modifications for these geared motors to improve stability? Current settings are below. Thanks.


#8

Looking at the 3d model in the configurator on the first screen, does your image follow your quad movements exactly? When you tilt the frame nose up does the 3d image do the same, also tilt left/right. Just to make sure alignment is set correctly. Would you be able to shoot a short vid of it hovering and include a couple of quick throttle punches? That might help point us in the right direction for pid advice.
Love the look of it, I’d imagine it will be quite floaty in flight.


#9

Trying raising the proportional on roll and pitch. Start at 65 and see if it gets better. I haven’t tuned many geared quads, but makes sense that you need to raise them since changes are geared down. A quick video of it flying may help too.


#10

Thanks Chaotix. It does follow the simulated 3d quad on the CleanFlight screen nicely. Also, when I press the right hand stick all the way to the left, (full left roll) and then give it a wee bit of throttle, the aircraft tries to roll left as it should. Same for roll right, pitch forward, and pitch back. I’ll try for a video of it flying. I’ve only been able to control it in headless mode, and it is quite a handfull…very unstable, really wants to roll right and is yawing badly.


#11

…additional problem is that throttle goes from no spin to well above hover with only a slight push forward of the left stick. Thanks again.


#12

What do the channels look like on your receiver tab? All go from 1000-2000?


#13

You seem to have all rates set to zero? Is that correct? It won’t fly at all well unless to put some figures in the boxes. Try 0.35 for all 3 just now.


#14

Will do. I’m at work for +3 more hours. I’ll RSVP once I’ve done this. Thanks.


#15

Well that improves things a little. Flying is cleaner now in headless mode. Quad rotates very slowly in clockwise direction while headless…should I adjust yaw? Yaw is currently set at 315 degrees, GYRO, ACCEL, and MAG all are set at,

“CW 0 degrees flip”.

Thanks.


#16

Note: Changing “Yaw” to 0 or 45 degrees causes spiral of death. Adjusting YAW from 315 to 312 or 318 does not stop the slow clockwise rotation while in headless mode.


#17

Yaw drift is probably stick centering or jitter. Some yaw deadband may help.


#18

set deadband=4
set yaw_deadband=4

Makes no difference. Still getting slow clockwise rotation in headless mode.

None of my other builds have yaw issues on this transmitter.
Thanks.


#20

Will it trim out? Not suggesting that as a permanent solution, but may provide some insight.

Plus your Pid values you posted all looked pretty low. I don’t have any experience tuning geared quads so take it with a grain of salt, but I’d expect the reduction of the gears to also translate into a reduction of the actual effect of the Pid controller on the props. Of course as I type that, I also consider it’s extremely overpowered which could equally reduce the necessary gain for stability. My gut says you need higher coefficients though. (Yaw drift not likely related to PID)


#21

Got it.

I had two problems going on,

  1. Rates were set to zero as default by CleanFlight, and
  2. Sticks were not centered properly in CleanFlight.
    Clearly, both are noob problems. Thanks for the help.

Current PID settings are,

Just for the record,
aircraft is UDI818A,
104g w/out battery,
225 dia, motors are 8.5x20mm.

Got it for Christmas in 2015, (my first quad).
Now I can fly it with my Taranis X9E.