5" vs micros


#21

I guess with this micro fever those things will improve soon, whether it is a software or hardware issue. Even with props, you can see all sort of props for micros right now. 4, 5, 6 blades… Maybe this will be refined too in a near future.

But i don’t really think that the first thing a begginer should do is to build a quad. Building is fun, but also very frustrating when you’re starting to learn. Why not a rtf? A 100 or 150€ investment in your first quad is not a big deal. Fly it, enjoy it, let it awake your love for fpv, repair it and learn from how it is built. Then you can think of the best upgrades or the parts you need for a better build


#22

My hardcore racing friends have been experimenting with 3",4" and 5". Luckily racing performance is a bit less subjective, and I think the consensus is: 5" is faster around the typical MultiGP tracks once the pilot is familiar with it. 4" is more nimble, and initially may be faster. However once familiar with the track, the handling is not as much of a factor and the pilot can simply carry more speed with the 5". 3" is definitely slower. Breifly last year, the gap was not so big, but 220x motors/props got WAY better in the last 12months.


#23

That makes sense, @Denovich. In the end it boils down to the old “horses for courses.” Even the lightest 5" mini quad will require a significant amount of open space. OTOH, a micro quad can fly safely in much tighter spots. You’re a perfect example: you fly 3" and smaller micros in the neighborhood, and reserve the more powerful 5" and 6" minis for the abandoned golf course.

No doubt that on a MultiGP track with some straight lines, a lightweight 5" will be able to put more “pedal to the metal” than a 3" micro. However, as soon as the course gets small and tight, or you want to fly in an average (urban) backyard or playground, there’s no doubt that a 2.5" or 2" micro will shine.

As others have mentioned, the ability to fly pretty much anywhere and anytime is a huge advantage for micro quads. Because: practice, practice, practice! :smiley: For those who live in a built-up urban area, this may be a make-or-break factor in favor of little micro quads. If you live in a cushy suburb with big open lots and lush green medians like Kabob, consider yourself lucky and fly that 5" mini or whatever else gets your juices flowing. :stuck_out_tongue:


#24

Very informative comment. I guess, in one hand, industry and pilots found a sweet spot in 5". That may change if smaller components keep improving.

I guess this is comparable to cars. You cant argue that Formula one is the king, but only on a flat and even pavement. There are hundreds of different car classes for hundreds of types of racing, so it sounds to me that recommending ONLY 5" is just nonsense


#25

That exactly.


#26

I can’t imagine myself flying a 5" in the center of Madrid… But i can take my beloved brushed micros to the park and have tons of fun with them. When i move to the country (hopefully soon) i may change my preferences


#27

I would agree with a lot of what Kabob said, but like has been mentioned I think he’s coming from a much different viewpoint than the average FPV pilot. I consider myself a decent pilot, but I’m not nearly confident enough in my skills to safely fly a 5" in a lot of the places that the “pro” pilots are able to fly them in. Even if I thought I could fly in those places without damaging property or hurting someone, the risk would scare me enough not to try it. But, with a much smaller, lighter micro quad I would feel more comfortable flying in some of those kinds of places.

-Dustin


#28

I made a conscious decision to stay with 1s brushed builds for the following reasons:

1 - convenience - I can fly anywhere without raising a legal eyebrow, and on a rainy day, I can play inside my house.

2 - cost - parts are cheap AND I’m not sponsored. 100% out of my own pocket.

3 - weight - Controller / Goggles / 5 - builds / 22 batteries / spare props / antennas = under 10lbs all fitting inside 1 backpack with room to spare.

4 - Safety/liability - 50grams coming at you at 30mph vs. 250grams coming at you at 50mph - you decide which you prefer - hahaha

5 - Skill Level - IMHO micro brushed builds require more planning and better flying skills than the 3-4s builds because of their smaller power-to-weight ratio. You could punch your way out of anything with a 3-4s build.

In closing: I’m neither a snob or an elitist - given the opportunity, I’d absolutely love to fly a 5" one day with a nice HD camera, where I can see all the crucial detail I’m missing with the crappy 1s micro cameras available.

I don’t particularly care for the sponsored opinion.


#29

I agree with every point that you mentioned, and i think 1s micros is a safe, cheap, fun and great way to train yourself to pilot any bigger aircraft, and that it pushes you measure every movement because if you don’t, you don’t have the power to recover. I just miss the power of bigger quads to fly more acrobatic.

I think 2 or 3" brushless it’s more than enough to have lots of fun and it’s still cheaper than 5", so i will wait until i can spend the money and until i find the best model/parts for me.

For everything you can buy in this world there are lots of sponsored opinions. No one has the absolute truth about something (except joshua bardwell :laughing: ) . It’s up to us to decide which ones to trust. When you know nothing about something, you usually trust the ones who know…


#30

Regarding opinions:
Hanging out here, everyone, and I do mean everyone has contributed good stuff to this site, and to be honest, except for the BF site, this is the only one I regularly visit and come to for information on my micro brushed builds. @NotFastEnuf’s column on tuning brushed builds is priceless - for example.
I ask questions here about certain established practices and things like “which power supply do you use?” because I know I’ll get real-life answers and not just the regular shills pimping their products.


#31

The most valuable and useful info i got since i started with this hobby 8 months ago, was and is in this forum. All the videos of youtube, all the facebook groups…those are great, but anywhere else i could solve all the problems i had with my builds, and learn more about everything related to micro fpv


#32

I finally watched Kebab’s two videos in full length. He actually makes some good points.

I’ve always been a big fan of looking at disc load for quads, just like wing load matters for planks (fixed wing). If you look at high-performance 3D plane, they are light, powerful, and have relatively large wing surface area for their weight and power.

The gyroscopic effect of larger props providing more stability is new to me, but does makes sense. Think of how the turning wheels on a bicycle or motorbike help to keep it upright and stable at speed. (Downside is that it does take more power to change course.)

To me, it sounds like he just doesn’t like the current 2-3" offerings. However, he is continuing to look for a small “Tiny Whoop” class micro that will live up to his standards. So his dismissal of micro quads is not quite as categorical and absolute as the discussion made it sound like.

Bottom line: I’m not giving up on micros, but I’m not giving up on Kebab either. :wink:

Plus, I’m working on a 250g 5-inch LOS acro quad, which will hopefully give me the best of both worlds. :smile:


#33

You all know i’m just a beginner (just realized that it’s been 8 months since i started to learn… Quite some time) and i’m using my common sense more than my knowledge about quadcopters (and physics)

I think that there are just a bunch of factors that can make a difference on how different sizes of quadcopters fly.

I can only think of gravity, inertia and wind. Different sizes and weights of quadcopters must react to this factors in a different way. The rest of things rely on technology and proportions. I don’t know if giroscopic effect in bigger props would be a differential factor given the bigger weight of the aircraft. Again, proportions (please correct me if i’m wrong)

Maybe today some components are not so evolved in a micro class compared to 5", but they will be soon, and for most of us, components for micros are enough evolved to make micros worth flying.

I respect Kabab’s opinion and can’t argue his conclusions. He contributes to the evolution of this hobby, but maybe he shouldn’t be advicing begginners. You need some knowledge to correctly understand some of the things he says (and it seems that we needed this debate to get his whole point :laughing: )

I agree with you, i’m not giving up on Kebab either, but now i know when to listen and when to stop listening


#34

I can’t wait for 1s brushless motors… :slight_smile:


#35

As far as i know brushless 1s is not a big difference from brushed. I saw some reviews of 1s brushless models and they all seemed to perform similar to brushed. Please let me know if there’s some noticeable improvement in power because i would be interested


#36

Just thinking out of the blue:
Brushless technology over brushed should be pretty obvious. I personally have no knowledge of the brushless motors used in “drones” but AFAIK, brushless motors don’t wear out like the brushes/commutators used in brushed, core-less motors. Another said advantage is active-braking (pardon me if I have the wrong terminology).
OTOH - I don’t know about brushless motor efficiency at lower voltages, though I think the technology is around the corner.
Now, if some great entity would create the next level in evolution for"micro" drones, and using a 1s and the limitations imposed by 3.7volts, ideally each motor should weigh no more than 4.5g and should have equal or more power than our beloved MMW Dark editions. I would then think that an AIO FC/ESC/receiver would be the lightest option. I think a 600mah battery would be the best balance between power and weight and the AUW should be no more than 57g. Flytime should be a solid 3 minutes with a minute to spare. Then again… :wink:


#37

Can’t argue whay you just said. I should try a brushless 1s, maybe i do, but what i really want is power, lots and lots of power!! :smirk:


#38

@Aaa, let me start by saying the discussion you opened up here is absolute gold! And @chime13, thankyou for tagging me on this one for I might have missed it and have REALLY enjoyed reading this. So I guess I will put my $.02 in…

As far as advice for you goes … I will say this: You got the most important thing right already which is being part of an amazing community like this. The guys here are on the cutting edge of making micros perform in this hobby and many of the absolute best have already participated in your thread!!
@JBFPV is IMHO the best micro pilot out there. Go grab some popcorn and watch his youtube channel. It will blow your mind
@Denovich and @las are some the the smartest minds in our hobby and are active builders and know the best components that work well together. I quickly learned that if I don’t know what parts to combine - ask them, get what they recommend, and it will be AWESOME!
@Bama3Dr, @yets, @chime13, @joshthebox have all made it through the micro learning curve and have very valuable opinions on what it takes to crest that challenge.
@Brainstorm has a very well selected name - he is the first to participate on great ideas. If he shows up where you are - it’s a good sign you’re on the right track. And it not just here at MMC, I see him show up everywhere the hobby is on the bleeding edge of advancement.

I joined up here when I got micro fever and the results I was producing on my own would have left me agreeing with Kabob, Steele, and Bardwell. This community helped me change my opinions by changing my results. They would be saying the same thing had they participated here and worked to break through the challenges that micros create instead of giving up and voicing their personal failures with micros as guidance for others.

I will close by saying that the only way for a beginner to get better is to fly. It doesn’t matter what you fly as long as you fly it alot. Anything will help you improve if you use it everyday.

BTW, the only difference I feel between micros and larger quads is how much inertia they carry in the air when you let off the throttle. That feels different. Active braking in brushed vs brushless feels different. Everything else comes down to tuning. Every craft I own of every size otherwise feels basically the same because they are well tuned. That’s what a tune is for. So if your goal is to become a better pilot … tell us what you can fly everyday. And we can tell you what parts to put together and guidelines to follow for the best possible experience.


#39

Here is a link also


Go there and watch in amazement … then ask yourself if annyone who says micros can’t perform really know what they’re talking about. :smile:


#40

Also here’s a crazy idea… go make us a video of the spaces you have where you could fly everyday and post it. Give us a tour. We can tell you what we would grab to go rip it. The craft has to match the space. :wink: